What's in the Cross Reference Library? The Heroes God Wants Us to Be

Hero - Being a single man in today’s culture is downright dangerous. It’s easy to be overwhelmed, feel helpless about living by God’s high standards for singles. It’s easy to cave to in to the pressures of this sex-soaked world and accept defeat—blaming the media, the culture, even girlfriends who don’t know how tough it can be. But many men have read books like Every Young Man’s Battle and Tactics and have committed themselves to stand strong and pure in the power of God, and to go on the offensive against the onslaught of negative stereotypes. Some have suffered. Some have fallen. But many have experienced victory—and you can be among them. What makes those committed men so desirable to women? Hero is their creed. From best-selling author Fred Stoeker, along with his son Jasen, come the straightforward insights and real-life examples you’re looking for to help you take personal purity to its logical conclusion. Here’s straight truth with irrefutable evidence of what makes an ultimate hero to women who long for men of faith—men who stand by their convictions and make their world a safer and better place. 

The Roar Within - Every boy has dreams of the man he will become—exploring the world, fighting the enemy, and being dangerous for good. He imagines himself as the hero, the expert, the one others look up to. Then somewhere along the way, the lies of the enemy knock him down, his dreams are shattered, and he loses his purpose as the enemy attempts to rob him of his true identity. In this hard-hitting book, world-class hunter, adventurer, and popular speaker Brent Henderson takes men on a journey to some of the most dangerous and deadly places on earth. Along the way, he helps each man discover that the most powerful force in the universe can be found in his spirit, where God resides. He shows men how to revolver what’s been lost by answering their biggest questions: Who am I really? Where does my value come from? Am I enough?

Who Were The Puritans? - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
Okay, here's the question. "The Puritans play a prominent role in our observance of Thanksgiving. Can you tell us more about these people and their faith?" And Jonathan, would you get us started?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so I had to do quite a bit of research, cause I didn't know a lot, I guess. So I guess the question talks about Puritans so we can, I guess we'll hit on that. They were a group of people that were, I guess part of the church in England. And a good majority, you'd have two different groups, you had the Separatists, I think that's how you say it. And then the ones that didn't wanna separate from the church. Those kind of the two groups of that Puritan thought process I guess. And they were really wanting to, I guess they were a movement that was trying to separate the Anglian type of church culture that they were wanting to move into, and separate from more of that Catholic church mindset. And so they wanted to make sure that their influence was purely scripturally motivated. And then they also wanted to eliminate from their beliefs anything that was rituals or practices that weren't really directly found in scripture. So they didn't wanna just do something because it was what we've always done. They wanted to make sure it was, "this is what scripture shows and so then we'll go with that," their beliefs. And from what I found on the internet, some of their beliefs was that there's a judgmental God. God rewards good and punishes evil, predestination, the elect, the original sin, God's grace and providence. And so that was some of the beliefs that they would, I guess, walk in. And so, if we're talking about Thanksgiving as a holiday, we would talk more about the Pilgrims, and the other guys, we'll get more into that as we move forward. But the Puritans, I guess if we separate them from the Pilgrims, they came over to America more in that 1630, somewhere around that time, to Boston. And they were also ordered from the king to establish a colony there. And so they came over with the goods, with the backing of England in that sense, to come and establish a colony there that would really be England on this side of the states. Well obviously, it wasn't the states back then, but (laugh). So that's kind of where they came over from, that they really wanted to separate and have religious freedom. A lot of them, and this is where we see the pilgrims coming over, is cause they were coming over because they wanted to have that religious freedom. And some of the Puritans really, I guess some of them later on were still part of the Church of England. "We haven't separated from them, and so we're coming over to establish that here." And as you guys will talk about the Pilgrims, they were coming over to run away from that culture. And so that's where we see it. My family, I guess if we're talking about Thanksgiving, we celebrate it and more of the thought of us getting together as a family and thanking the Lord. And we see that, I guess some of that within the pilgrims. They were thanking God for that first harvest and they were celebrating with the people that had survived through that dreadful first year. And then also you would see the Native Americans that came apart and celebrated with them during that first harvest. Cause they were the ones that helped teach them how to grow the crops, how to fish. How to do those type of things, and how to live in this environment opposed to where they were from. So kind of, I guess some of the history that I had found within that.

Ben Cline
I always think back when I get questions like this, that my worst subject in school was history. And so I have to do a lot of looking, but I kind of wanted to focus a little bit on the Pilgrims and their faith. Because our celebration of Thanksgiving does really revolve more around the Pilgrims than it does the Puritans. And there's a difference there. But it was interesting reading about the pilgrims, because they truly were separatists from the Church of England. They left England in 1608 and they interestingly went to Holland to seek religious freedom there; to be able to worship according to their conscience. And they were only there for, I think, 12 years or something before they decided to leave there. Because the economy and the culture there was not really allowing them to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish. And so they set off for the new world, and ended up landing in Massachusetts in 1620. And that's all of the history that I really wrote down. But I was just focusing on the beliefs of the Pilgrims being separatists from the Church of England. Number one: they rejected the institutional Church of England as Separatists. And so the first thing that I was thinking of, that I was reading about, is that they believed that the worship of God must originate in the inner man. And so I was just thinking of, what are some of the scriptures that were maybe running through their minds as they were formulating that sense of worship. John 4:24, "God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in spirit and truth." So they were probably seeking the truth of worshiping God. Luke 4:8, "Jesus says, 'worship the Lord your God and serve Him only." And I think that's probably something that they were seeking; was to be worshiping God only and not the institution that they felt like man had created. Psalm 66:4, it says, "all the earth bows down to you. They sing praise to you, they sing praises to your name." Romans 12:1, this is a familiar verse to us, "present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your spiritual service of worship." And so they had this desire to be worshiping God according to the way that they understood God was asking them to worship Him. And then the second part of what I was reading about, what the pilgrims believed is that they didn't see church as a building. They didn't really see church as this physical institution, but they saw it more as we see it now. We talk about this a lot in church, that church is not this building that you come to, but it is the body of Christ. And that really goes on and is talked about more in Romans 12, starting in verse three. He talks about how the body of Christ, we all have gifts that, He's made us all gifted in different ways. But the reason why, is because He wants us to work together as the body of Christ, as the church. And so I think those were maybe just some things that they could have studied as they were formulating that belief system that they came over to the new world with.

Gary Schick
Yeah, in many ways they were kind of the seed from which modern evangelicalism has grown. In many ways, in terms of independent churches, in terms of Back to the Bible, in terms of a personal faith versus an institutional faith. And I think you both drew the line really well. I think it gets confusing in people's minds; people say Puritan and mean Pilgrims. And yeah, actually the difference between the Puritans and the Separatists is right there in the names. And what they were seeing happening in England is something that we are seeing. I mean, it's been going on for ages. There is a tendency, however the church begins, for it to slowly institutionalize and to sort of start to drift away from scripture. And so shortly after the reformation, England was kind of going back and forth in its relationship to Catholicism, and the Church of England was kind of the result. And there were some really great things about it. It had reformed to the scripture in some ways, but not completely in others. And there was an institutional aspect which maybe wasn't so great, but there were some good things happening. And so the Puritans were a group within who, their goal was to purify, Puritans to purify the church from within. So the Puritans are the ones who hung in there and they said, "we are the Church of England, we are not leaving the Church of England. We are going to be God's light within to bring this institution around to a more biblical base." The separatists, just by definition, they separated out. They didn't go to church at the local Episcopal church, which was the Church of England. They had their gatherings in the countryside, and houses and farmhouses, and whatever; barns. And really, the famous guy from them is John Bunyan, who wrote The Pilgrim's Progress. Sadly, I'll bet most of our listeners have never read The Pilgrim's Progress. But there was a time when pretty much, in every Christian home in America you had three books. You had the Bible, you had Fox's Book of Martyrs, and you had John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress. And Pilgrim's Progress, he wrote it while he was in jail and starts as if he's, "While I was in jail I had this dream," or something to that effect. And it is an allegory, where it's very symbolic, this guy's journey from the city of Destruction, which is the city of this world to the heavenly kingdom. And how he came, first, as he's coming out, he's hearing the words of the prophets and he's fleeing freeing for his life, and he flees the city of destruction. He finally comes to the foot of the cross, where literally the burden drops off his back and he receives the gift. So they had a very evangelical understanding of the gift by salvation, by faith through Christ and Christ alone. Great book. If you've never read it, read it. But as you pointed out, these separatists as you pointed out Ben, these separatists first go to Holland. And one of the things that I remember about them is that they're actually doing pretty well there, but their kids, just like our kids, are starting to blend in with the culture and speak the language of the culture. And for them, that literally meant speaking another language. Speaking Dutch as opposed to English, and just taking on the Dutch culture, and maybe in some other ways starting to drift away from their Biblical roots. And so they're like, "no, this isn't good," and so they go back to England and they eventually board the Mayflower. And after a horrific voyage, they land in New England, north of where they wanted. They wanted to go further south where it was a little warmer. They get there. Have you ever watched the show Alone? Basically you're watching 10 people out starve one another, trying to win 50 or 500 grand, and whoever is basically the last one who can take it out there. And every now and then somebody will bring down an elk or something. They'll bring down some massive animal, and they'll have some food to survive on. But, this is the pilgrims, they get---and the thing about Alone that is so appropriate to this, is they put these people, these 10 people in some remote location late enough in the year that they really don't have time to build, gather, and prepare for winter. And so it really is, it's a show of just scratching by, and that was the pilgrims. They were the first episode of Alone. They get to New England when it's well past time to plant or even really harvest. Winter's coming, they have to pull together some bare bone shelters, people are sick, they're sick from the voyage. I think, as we've pointed out, I think over half of them died that winter. The handful that were left are taking care of the sick and it's ugly. These people are sick, their---well, I probably can't say it on the radio. It's coming out from everywhere, let's just put it that way, and they are really sick. And so the people that are left are having to change the clothing and change the bedding and it's gross. And they only would've survived, I think based on the kindness of the natives. And I think in our minds, the way we've kind of gone to school, and that we've dreamed up this image of the first Thanksgiving, it's probably a little different than the way it really was. I think well, what did you say, Jonathan? You thought they probably ate eel, because that's what the natives had helped them learn to fish. I mean, whether there was any Turkey, there was probably venison. One of the things I remember reading is that they did play games. So we talk about, "oh, they've secularized Thanksgiving with all this football." Well, they probably didn't play football, but as you point out, they may have played lacrosse, the native game. There was some friendship there as time unfolds, they probably didn't continue to treat those natives at all the way they should have. But they were treated well by the natives, and probably only survived because of them. Teaching them to plant, teaching them to fish, teaching them to so many things. And so I think there's some good that we can come together about, and say, "you know what, thank you Lord that there were some people who welcomed them to this land." Would that it had stayed that way, I don't think the Pilgrims, who were looking for some religious toleration didn't turn around and end up being all that tolerant as they set up shop in New England. But history happened and we are still a work in progress. I think that's what America is, it is a work in progress. But there's some pictures there that I think, this is what we need to strive for. And as I was thinking about this, as we were even talking right before we dug in, I thought about those words in Revelation 7 where John talks about what's coming. He says, "and after this, I looked and behold a great multitude that no one could number from every nation, from every tribe and people and language standing before the throne and before the land clothed in white with palm branches in their hands and crying out in a loud voice, 'salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the lamb." So as Christians, we have some distant memories of what that might have been. We really don't know a great deal, but we also know where we're going. And I think Thanksgiving can be a day to strive toward. A good day for all of us, who in one way or another, found ourselves in this wonderful land of plenty. And making America what it should have been and should be. Just one nation of people from every background, for people of every background where the gospel can be freely offered to people of every background. And boy, that is my prayer, is that we'll come together and just really honor Jesus in our own homes. Enjoy the day. It's only a day, they had it, I think, for several days. Was it three to five or something? Three days. So can you just imagine, stop. We kind of do that at the end of the year. Between Christmas and new years, everything slows way down. That's what they did. They just slowed down to give thanks for the harvest and to give thanks to the Lord.

What's New at the Cross Reference Library?

Fruit Full - What do your kids know about the fruit of the Spirit? Maybe they can rattle off the list: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. But do they really understand what the fruits look like in daily life? Christie Thomas is here to help you connect your children to the power of the Holy Spirit—and help your entire family learn a lot along the way! Each of these 100 devotionals will inspire your family with thought-provoking questions, real-life applications, and more. She also includes hands-on activities you can try when there’s time. Fruit Full offers real understanding of how the Spirit will help your kids grow in their own beautiful, Jesus-reflecting character. With this book as your guide, the whole family will learn to grow abundant “fruit” together.

How We Love Matters - Racism is alive and well in the church. Racism has, in fact, been taught within the church for so long most of us don’t even recognize it anymore. Pastor Albert Tate, a dynamic speaker and rising leader within the church world, guides readers in acknowledging this fact, encouraging siblings in Christ to sit together in racial discomfort to examine the role they may play in someone else’s struggle. How We Love Matters is a series of nine moving letters, reminiscent of Dr. King’s Letter from Birmingham Jail, about different aspects of American and Christian culture. In letters that include Dear Whiteness, Dear America, and Dear Church, Tate calls out racism in the world, the church, and within himself and his reader. The book educates and enlightens in a way that flips the church on its head. It looks to the life of our Savior Jesus Christ as a clear and inspiring model for how we need to treat and love one another as siblings and neighbors, regardless of differences like skin color, culture, language, or beliefs. Tate believes that the only way to make change is by telling the truth about where we are—relationally, internally, and spiritually. How We Love Matters is an exposition of relevant biblical truth, a clarion call for all believers to examine how they see and understand each other, and it is a way forward toward justice, reconciliation, and healing.

California Misconceptions - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Michael Gleb and Matthew Gleb, and Pastor Mike introduced us to his brother Matthew, who preaches in North Carolina.

Michael Gleb
Hello and welcome to Ask the Pastor. My name is Michael Gleb and I'm the pastor of Torrington Baptist Tabernacle and I'm joined today by a special co-host. This is my brother Matthew Gleb, and Matthew is from North Carolina. Matthew, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, like you said, my name is Matt. I'm the youth pastor in Greenville, North Carolina at People's Baptist Church and I've been there now for 10 years and the Lord's really blessed in our ministry there. Excited to be a part of a staff, about six of us on staff, and we run about 450 people on Sunday morning. And I have a youth group, about 40 to 50 kids, and I just really love serving the Lord.

Michael Gleb
Amen. I think it's a unique experience that's obviously different from being a pastor, is being on staff at a church and serving under a pastor. And sometimes the pastoral staff can be underappreciated sometimes. But also, it can be a tremendous blessing and you have an opportunity to work with people that even a pastor doesn't get the opportunity to work at. But anyway again, you said that you had been on staff for 10 years at People's Baptist there in Greenville, North Carolina. Talk to us about some of the duties that you have had over your tenure there.

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, I started right out of college and we have a Christian school there. And so Pastor Butler, who's actually also my father-in-law, hired me on to teach at the school. So I taught there full-time for a couple years, and knowing that I did not wanna teach forever he, and he knew that as well. And we started to transition out of that position and I started a college ministry at East Carolina University. We called it a Turning Point College Ministry. And I had a great time doing that for several years, for four years actually, and saw a freshman class come in and work with them until they graduated and got to see several students saved. And I got to participate in a couple of their weddings and actually marry off a couple of them as well. So that was really cool to see. And then during that time our youth pastor at the time, left our church to help his father-in-law in Pennsylvania. So I started pulling double duty with being a college pastor and youth pastor, and we were able to do that for about a semester and I just could not keep up with preaching three times a week. Still teaching a little bit in the school and just all the other response was that, "come on a church staff." And so we handed off the college manager to someone else, and I was able to be a full-time youth pastor from then on out and still work a little bit in our Christian school as well. But a lot to do, a lot of different facets of our ministry. And so it's great to be a part of a little---have my hand in a little bit of each one.

Michael Gleb
Yeah. I know a little bit about your history and I know that you've coached basketball, is that right?

Matthew Gleb
I've coached all the sports, not qualified for some, but basketball, baseball, soccer.

Michael Gleb
Oh, soccer. Wow, that's an interesting one. I was an assistant coach for soccer in Fairfax, Virginia for a while, but never was the head coach. And I mean, you've done just about anything that you can do in a church ministry. You've done it, you sing in the choir.

Matthew Gleb
I was singing in the choir and with some scheduling conflicts, I sing whenever I know the song. Now, I'm not able to go to our practices, because of some scheduling conflicts in our ministry. But yeah, love singing. I never sang ever in my whole life until I went to our church: learned how to sing a little bit and learned how to read some music. But mainly I sing with our frontline music and on our church staff we have a singing all of our staff we can sing pretty well. So that's fun. But yeah, singing has become a new part of the resume.

Michael Gleb
Amen. That's good. Yeah, I know that you almost have to be sort of a renaissance man when you come in on staff somewhere. For instance, I had my education in history, history education, secondary education. But when I started teaching, it was teaching. I taught computer classes, I taught PEs, I taught health, I taught all kinds of things that I had zero experience or almost zero knowledge in by the way. So I'm sure some of those parents wouldn't like to hear that. But anyway, that's kind of how it is.

Matthew Gleb
And we really cannot forget about the most important facet of any ministry is being able to stack chairs and move tables. I can move all sorts of tables. Plastic, metal, wooden, you ask and I've done it.

Michael Gleb
Yeah, I told the congregation, I said, "pre-pastoring is 80% reminding people of the gospel and 20% setting up chairs. So yeah, I understand that. That's so true. Now, you don't forget, there is a better half to the Gleb family. And there are also should I say an offspring? Talk to us a little bit about your wife and family.

Matthew Gleb
I've been married now for nine years, her name is Casey and we met in college. We went to West Coast Baptist College, and that's where we met and started dating. We dated for about a year and a half and then I proposed to her after I graduated and she still had a year left. And so I started working at the church one year before she got there, and we enjoyed our time together alone. And then we started to want to have a child, and this may relate to some people, but it took us four and a half years before we were able to have our son. So that's pretty tough. And all of you out there that may be struggling to have a child, or it just doesn't come as quickly as it does others. It was definitely a burden for us for a while, but we were able to have a son, his name is Chandler Michael Gleb. He's the best, and I love him so much. And now we are currently wanting to have another child. And so if any listeners out there have a good prayer life, please pray for me and my wife to be able to have another kid.

Michael Gleb
As your brother, I got a little excited there. I thought there was an announcement coming to the greater part of eastern Wyoming and western Nebraska coming up there, but that's good.

Matthew Gleb
-----You would not be the first to know.

Michael Gleb
We're glad to hear that. Chandler is a special boy. I love him to death and we're excited that Chandler's in your life. He was born in 2020, and just kind of a little bit of a family history here. Our dad, Matt and my's dad passed away in late 2020 to Covid, but Chandler was born in March I believe, right? And then yeah, Chandler was born in March and so he was able to meet dad, and dad was able to hold him and that was a blessing. Now, I had you come out here and preach for me every year. We've had you here every year except for last year because we had a covid scare in our church and then there was literally Southwest Airlines canceling flights because of pilots on strike and all this stuff. So you preached to us online while we set out for a couple of weeks going to online services but you have a connection to the west. How long did you live here?

Matthew Gleb
As you told me, cause I did not know this We moved here in 93, so I was three years old. I'm a 1990 baby, and that's really fun to say these days. To say, "I was born in the 1900s," for all these young people around. But we moved here in 93, and then moved out back east in 2003. So, I was here for 10 years and then while I was in college, my parents moved back. So most of my Christmas's while I was in college were in Cheyenne.

Michael Gleb
Yeah. So, I know this is probably putting you on the spot. It's not the formative years of your life. For instance, I moved here when I was 15, so that shows you the age gap here between us. But I moved here at 15, so it was formative years for me. But can you tell us anything maybe that you like about the west or something you remember about the west, or something that you appreciate about the area?

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, I love the wide openness. You get out east and there's trees everywhere, so you can't see very far and you kind of feel enclosed. But out here it's just kind of wide open. So I do love that. I miss the western culture of the cowboys. And I miss the mountains, and being able to actually see the mountains in North Carolina. If you get into the mountains, you can't see them anymore because there's just trees everywhere. So, I love that. Love the weather. I loved winters here for a while as a kid, cause we had to play in the snow. Obviously, I didn't have to drive through it, so I know my mom hated that. And my mom and dad were on the precipice of divorce several times as dad would be forcing our car down the highway.

Michael Gleb
Know no murder!

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, he'd be forcing us down the highway. We're going to church and we only had to drive an hour to church one way. So we've seen our fair share of accidents. But yeah, I love the west, and love coming out here to visit. Love coming right here to preach to a lot of good people here. And yeah, I like the culture.

Michael Gleb
Now, you came to know Christ here in the west. Am I mistaken about that?

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, I was saved in 2001 when we were going to Cavalry Baptist Temple in Fort Collins, Colorado. And I got saved one night when my little sister was scared, that she came into our room and she was scared and I was like, "Jessica, there's nothing to be afraid of. No one's gonna get us in our house." She goes, "No, I'm not afraid of that. I'm afraid of dying and going to hell." And I've heard the gospel message my whole life. I could quote the verses, but I feel like it was truly then that the Lord convicted my heart and I realized, "Oh wow, I don't believe that I would be going to heaven if I died." And it just kind of hit me all at once. And we could not wait to talk to our parents; they were actually, I think, at the grocery store. And so when they got back, my dad took me into our computer room, and my mom took my little sister. And he led me to the Lord, and we knew the verses, talk together, and that's the night that I trusted Christ as my savior.

Michael Gleb
Yeah, it's one thing to know what the Bible says, concerning salvation. It's one thing to know all the verses, it's even another thing to believe there is a God. But to have a personal relationship with Jesus is the most important thing to accept Him personally. And so that's a great story. It just reminds us of how many people grow up in church and never truly accept Christ as their Savior.

Matthew Gleb
We actually just recently had a woman at our church, she grew up in a certain denomination, and you could say that she loved God. That she appreciated the Bible and she enjoyed bringing her family to church. But they visited our church and her oldest daughter got saved at camp, and her husband had already been saved when he was in college. But she came to a point where she realized, "I can be as sincere as I want to be about religion and about God," but she came to know that, "I never trusted Him as my savior." And sincerity will not give you everlasting life.

Michael Gleb
Right.

Matthew Gleb
Being a good person and even really pushing everything you have into your religion, really means nothing. It's all about a relationship with Jesus. And I'm so glad that, Ms. Bear is her name, she actually was saved this Summer. Yeah, that's a blessing.

Michael Gleb
Let me put you on the spot as we end up here. Churches out here are not incredibly large. There's probably a few of them. I've been to some churches, even worked on staff of some churches; churches back east that were bigger in size that oftentimes have a staff of pastors: if you will, assistant pastors, youth pastors and things of that nature. Matt, from personal experience, and I really don't mean to try to put you on the spot here, but can you give us, if you happen to be in a church with an assistant pastor, here's what I've seen before. A church member may get angry and they don't direct it towards the pastor, because of the office. And so what they do is, they almost place their anger, it's misplaced anger, onto a staff member. They feel like they can mistreat a staff member. They feel like they can mistreat a youth pastor, or such and such. So I may ask you a question, what would you recommend of being 10 years on a church staff, what would you recommend for those maybe listening that do have a larger church that have the staff? How do you treat a staff member? Is it that way out there?

Matthew Gleb
On the senior pastor?

Michael Gleb
No, no, no. If you're, I mean, as experienced, how would you treat, if you're just a regular layman, how do you treat the staff person and their family?

Matthew Gleb
Yeah. I think it's easy to overlook the staff member, because the pastor is there in front of us every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, depending on your schedule. And so he gets a lot of the due recognition and appreciation for his office, and everything that he puts into the church. And this is no bash on our church. I believe our church does a great job, but I've seen it growing up in church my whole life. Where the people who don't have the title as senior pastor, that they may be forgotten. We have a pastor appreciation month, and a lot of times we recognize the pastor, but then there's a whole other pastoral staff that is doing a lot of work as well. And picking up a lot of the work so that the pastor could just study and preach and not have to do all the ins and outs, weekly things that we do. So I believe my dad probably did the best I've ever seen out of anyone. Helping to recognize and appreciate a whole church staff. And he would give honor to the pastor, but he would quickly follow that up knowing that the other families that are involved get their appreciation as well. And he wanted to take care of them. And the church staff gets a lot of the pressure, but sometimes the compensation is not as much. And so it's almost like the balance is totally different. So it's a good thing for maybe even your church to reevaluate how you take care of your staff, how you recognize them. We're not doing this to pat them back. We're not doing this for "atta-boys." But man, they don't hurt.

Michael Gleb
Sometimes it's needed.

Matthew Gleb
Yeah, they really do help keep people on fire. It's good to know that what you said spoke to someone's heart. It's good to know that, you know, you were a blessing to somebody. So be willing to share that. Be willing to be a blessing to those families in any way, shape or form.

Michael Gleb
Well, Matt, thank you for joining us. I love you and I'm so thankful you're my brother first of all, but that you came on and helped some people.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library? The Tuttle Twins!

How do you describe economics to a 7-year-old? Should your preteen care about the government? Are your kids learning about the free market in class?

For too long, parents have been at the mercy of professional curriculum developers to instruct their children. History is watered down, key principles omitted altogether, and time and attention given to things of lesser importance. Freedom-loving parents have long been left alone to shoulder the burden of educating their children and passing down a love of liberty. While there are many books to teach these ideas to adults, there has been a profound void in the children’s literature market. The Tuttle Twins series closes the gap, helping parents convey the principles of freedom to their kids in a fun way. Each book in this series focuses on a different aspect of the principles of a free society: free markets, competition, individual rights, the non-aggression principle, personal responsibility, protectionism, and a variety of other issues—all boiled down to core concepts that children of different ages can easily grasp.

Jesus Says Not To Be Sorrowful Over Those Who've Died; So Why Did He Weep?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Jonathan Hernandez, and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
So, we have a new question today. Each week we have a new question. This one came from, all of our questions, it came from Russ. He kind of funnels them to us. But this was a question that he received in response to an article. Well here, I'll just read what he wrote and the question. So he said, "Hello guys. The individual in this question is referring to one of Amanda's blogs. I thought you might have some thoughts to share." Thanks, Russ. And so here's the question, "an article of yours explained that Jesus cried because of the," and this is in quote, so this is quoted from the article. "Jesus cried because of the pain and suffering death was causing, even though death was not the end. In that moment, Jesus wept; God does not like to see his people struggle." So that's what the blog said. Now, the individual writing in, asks this question, "Why would Jesus cry when Jesus knew death is nothing to be sorrowful or sad about? I see it as my father or mother going to the grocery store, then I cry. Why would I cry when I know my father later comes home from his outing, or my mother when she goes to the grocery store? I cry and cry? When I know she's coming home later. Hopefully you understand where I got confused." All right, Jonathan?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. So I would guess the scripture reference would've been John 11:35, when it says, "Jesus," it's kind of my guess of where this all comes out of. And so, if we look around that scripture, you know, the whole context of that scripture, why did Jesus weep? Well, he was crying, or shedding tears because his good friend Lazarus has passed away. Right? And so they run to him and they say, "Well, why weren't you here? If you were here, he would still be alive." And they have some, I don't know, some Jews with them that were also crying. And so Jesus felt the emotion of the entire group, you know, think about that. Like, when we go to a funeral, or we hear the news of someone passing and we see the grief of people. I don't know about you guys, but I kind of start to tear up, you know? It's emotional even if I didn't know the person. But feeling the grief that these people are expressing, Jesus was fully God, right? And He was also fully human. So He would have these same emotions that we express, you know? If we can cry, Jesus also being fully human, would've also felt those emotions and know, "Hey, I see these people dealing with heavy grief and they're mourning the loss of someone." Jesus would feel that. And so I love that we have, you know, that Jesus can feel those same things that we do, you know? And know that when we go and we say, "Hey God, like, these are what I'm experiencing today." It's not like He goes, "Oh, well I don't understand that." You know, "I don't know what you guys are going through, I don't know those things." No, He relates to us. And so, just trying to lay some of that down. Like, he felt the same things that we feel, so He knows when we're suffering. Well, He's feeling that too. So God, you know, Jesus was feeling that deep sympathy of loss, sorrow, grief. So He felt all those things and He's seen, you know, "Hey, my good friend Lazarus is dead now." Being fully God, He knew ultimately that Lazarus was gonna be raced from the dead here in just a short time. He knew that, you know, Lazarus goes to spend eternity with Him later on. And so He wasn't weeping, or he wasn't crying because He felt, "Oh, I can't raise Lazarus from the dead." Or, "oh, Lazarus is dead forever, and I won't ever see him again." I think He was more weeping because he felt the grief and the pain of what everybody around Him was experiencing. And He was---I can't think of the---He was relating to them in that form. And so, that's kind of what I think, where I was feeling within this question when the question was like, "when the mom goes to the store, you know, the child weeps or doesn't weep because they know mom's coming back? Well, Jesus wasn't crying because He didn't know where Lazarus was going. You know, He was crying because he felt the grief and the pain and the sorrow that was around Him within everybody else. And then my wife brought up an interesting thing, too, last night when we were kind of discussing this. You know, she was like, "you know, Jesus ultimately knew that the result of sin is death." And so, He knew that, you know, He's gonna be seeing people ultimately die in their sins. And so maybe He was, you know, already seeing the future in an aspect of that, you know? There's all these people around here that are grieving for the death of Lazarus, even though internally, they're already dying because of their sin. So I thought that was kind of an interesting thing. And so we kind of went off on a thing last night going through that. So that's kind of where I guess I'm at in this.

Ben Cline
Yeah. That's great. I think that, you know, looking at this particular question, it's probably talking specifically about that instance in John chapter 11. And, you know, I was reading something and their perspective was, you know, "Jesus wasn't crying over the death of Lazarus because he knew, right? He knew that Lazarus was gonna be raised again. He knew that ultimately, Lazarus would be spending eternity with Him forever. And so, He wasn't necessarily crying or weeping because of Lazarus's death, but because of those who are around Him. Because He feels compassion for us. And, you know, I was also reading that the word that is used there when it's talking about Jesus crying, it indicates that these were tears of compassion for his friends. And so, you know, He's looking out, like you were saying Jonathan, and seeing Mary and Martha and all the Jews who are there, who are weeping over Lazarus, and you get choked up, right? You understand and you feel compassion for the people that are around you. There's another instance where the Bible and in the gospels, it talks about Jesus weeping. And that was in Luke chapter 19, where He's looking at the city of Jerusalem and understanding what their future is gonna be. And it says that as He was approaching the city, He wept over the city. And again, this is a weeping of compassion. And, you know, him feeling and understanding what the city is gonna be going through, but His weeping is more complex than just when we weep a lot of times. Because Jesus was looking at the city and He was understanding about the city that they had heard the message about him and they had rejected Him. And so, He knew what was coming for them, eternally speaking. But, you know, I was reading about this one as well, and they were also talking about how He knew within the matter of, you know, like 40 years that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed. And He was looking on the city and understanding that that was coming as well. He was weeping over the direction that the people had chosen to take; over that direction of rejecting Him as the savior. You know, so when we talk about Jesus weeping, He's weeping with compassion for His people. He's weeping with compassion and sympathy and empathy, over the things that we are feeling. I read a quote, it says, "Jesus' tears give us a glimpse of how the Father feels over the grief of His children. You know, Jesus being fully God and being fully man, He felt the things that we feel as human beings. And, you know, you ask the question, "Have you ever wept over something?" And I think that all of us could say, "Yes, we have wept over something." And, you know, maybe that's a yearly occurrence or a weekly occurrence, I don't know. But, you know, this is the same type of thing that Jesus felt, because he's fully human. But the feelings that He had were with the perspective of God, which is what makes it so complex, right? And so we can understand that, you know, when Jesus was weeping, it's cause He's feeling the same kinds of feelings that we feel, but knowing all the things that God knows. And so that's kind of where I land on that one.

Gary Schick
Excellent. And I was just kinda digging into the Greek while you were talking, you were mentioning it and, you know, Jesus wept and you know, that's essentially what the word means. I think it's always important to look at everything in context. It's the shortest verse in the Bible, just in case you wanted a little trivia there. What's the shortest verse of the Bible? It is John 11:35, "Jesus wept." And the reason I know that is, I had a roommate in college and, you know, talk about how you can misuse scripture. In a way it was kind of cool when we would sit down---I went to a Christian college. We'd sit down to have a meal, and so somebody would often pray. And so his way of praying for a meal was he would quote a scripture, which I thought, you know, that could be kind of cool. So we sat down for, I don't know, breakfast, lunch, or something. And my roommate goes, "Jesus wept. Amen." What? And I mean, consistently this was his meal type prayer. "Jesus wept. Let's dig it, guys." I think that's kind of missing the point. And I think it's kind of easy to miss the point here. One thing I think is helpful, is not just to read the words and say, "Hey, Jesus knew better. He knew we were gonna rise. He knew Lazarus was gonna rise. What's going on here?" Well, let's look at it in context. Start back at verse 32, "Now when Mary," and this is Mary who sat at Jesus' feet listening so intently, so there's a close relationship here. A close relationship of respect, of faith, of all kinds of good friendship going on. "When Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet saying to him, 'Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.' When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in his spirit and greatly troubled. And he said, 'Where have you laid him?' They said to him, 'Lord, come and see." Now we read these two words. "Jesus wept. So the Jews said, See how He loved him!' But some of them said, 'Could not He who opened the eyes of the blind man also have kept this man from dying.' Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave and a stone lay against it. Jesus said, 'Take away the stone." Well, we could go on from there, but it's interesting to me that both the one who wrote our question and the contemporaries around Jesus who observed his weeping, this raises questions in a sense of confusion for them. Like their question is, "Well, couldn't He who had opened the eyes of the blind, done something about this? You know, isn't this an unnecessary tragedy?" And our listener is kind of asking the question, "Well, aren't these unnecessary tears, if Jesus really does know?" And I think they're both going around. The very thing that I think you both have just really addressed so well, no need to say more, and that is that Jesus, "Yes, He's fully God." Yes, He's got this death thing under control but He, over and over again in scripture, we read something about Jesus that we human beings often don't have for each other. He has compassion. When He was about to feed the 5,000 and everybody's getting hungry and they've been with him for a long time, and the disciples are very uncompassionately sending them away so they can get something to eat. "Or where are we gonna get enough money to feed these people?" What does it say? It says, Jesus was moved with compassion. And actually, if you're reading the Old King James version, it talks about bowels of mercy or something. It's kind of a odd, but literally the Greek word (says Greek word) talks about a feeling down in the gut. Yes, He's God, but that doesn't make Him less in touch with our so-called feeble feelings as poor mortals. Actually, because He's God, because He made us, because He loves us; truly loves us, fully loves us. He actually enters deeper into emotion than we do. And just because there was a resurrection about to be, doesn't mean that Jesus was unable to enter into the real, felt, visceral, deep sorrow and loss that was absolutely real to everybody around Him. And it's His loss too. This is why He came. He came to overcome death, but He also recognizes---and I think you guys are pointing in this direction a little bit. He knows what overcoming death is gonna cost Him. He knows what He's about to go through. And the cross is all---all kinds of feeling is coming out of Jesus. All kinds of emotion coming out of Jesus, yet without sin. Which is the amazing thing, because you and I would've salted in our emotions with a few more things to say, wouldn't we? You know, we would've cursed the crowd in no uncertain terms. Not Jesus, not Jesus. He fully, more fully than we ever can recognize, the depth, the permanence, the gulf of death. And yet He does go on and bridge it. And we see, not only that He wept, but before He wept and after He wept, we see Him deeply moved by emotion. This is what sin has brought, it has brought this horrific gulf, this horrific separation. That ultimately would not even be just the separation, as if that wasn't bad enough between people who love each other, but a complete disconnect with the God who made us. Until He bridged the gap, so that we could enter into life, so that we could have a permanent resurrection down the road. And let's not forget that too. Lazarus' resurrection was merely, although miraculously, a restoration into this life, but a life continuing of decay and sorrow and feebleness down the road. We know that Lazarus, I mean, we don't know how long he lived. We're thinking he probably got to live to a good old age, but he died again. Only the resurrection of Jesus brings us to a new kind of resurrection. What Hebrews 11 calls a stronger resurrection. And indeed it is when truly, tears get wiped away, because death at that point will no longer have hold on us. But, you know, praise God! You know, the god of the ancient Greeks, Stoics perhaps has the god of no feeling, because there's no point in feelings. But the God of the Bible is a God---I mean, from the pages of the Old Testament on, He has His plan. He's working it out, but He feels when His people go astray. He feels what a cheated-on husband feels. We read about that in Hosea. He feels it, you know? I'll just say one more little thing. So years ago, I learned to play the harmonica, and I learned from a guy who, and this is something I grieve about, he doesn't know the Lord. But I got to actually experience some one on one lessons with him. And as he was teaching me to feel kind of a bluesy version of Amazing Grace, he said, "Feel it, Gary. Feel it." And if you know anything about the harmonica, it's an emotional instrument. It's all about music, it's all about emotion. And so, yeah, you can just play the notes very monotone or you can play it mm-hmm. And the kind of music, the kind of harmonica sound that gets ahold of people is when you're feeling it. And so I've taken that, not only into music, but recently I was actually at a family funeral. My aunt's lived to a good old age, she's been gone for several months. It could have been a completely emotionless time for me and everybody. But as I reflected on her life, as I reflected on the people in front of me, as I reflected on the need of some in the crowd for a salvation that they have not grasped yet, there was nothing fake about some tears that came to my eyes. You know, and that's just something that I've learned is, you can go through life kind of distancing yourself and disconnected from, or you can do what Jesus did when He came among us. You can feel it, you can connect, you can be there more than physically, but emotionally present. And that is where our God wonderfully meets us. Jonathan, you know what I was just thinking about too, just like the sorrow was real. The joy of the victory is real too. And it's, can you imagine the emotion when we all get to heaven? Wow! Victory day! And the resurrection is permanent. Those tears are washed away.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library? Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven

Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven - What happens when we die? Where do we go? Is there an afterlife? Does the Bible say anything specific about heaven? Are there really streets of gold there? Pearly gates? Has anyone been to heaven and returned with insider information? This book will answer those questions and tell you what’s up with heaven. God wants you to know all about your eternal home so you can anticipate the future. The heroes of Scripture thought constantly about heaven and confessed they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth, seeking a homeland, desiring a better country—a heavenly one—and looking forward to the city with foundations whose builder and maker is God. We should do the same. Heaven is the most encouraging subject in the Bible and the happiest location in the universe. You should know all about it. After years studying the subject of heaven, I’m overwhelmed by the comprehensive nature of the facts God shares with us in His Word. He wants us to study heaven, visualize heaven, and look forward to the place He is preparing for us. That’s why I’ve compiled these biblical truths into one comprehensive book packed with verses, references, and insights from Scripture. I hope they will encourage you to pursue your own Bible study about heaven and begin thinking often about the glorious future God has planned for you. 

Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven: Study Guide - “Out of sight, out of mind,” is a proven truism—and heaven is definitely out of our human sight. The only way to keep heaven in our mind’s eye is to read and rehearse the truths about heaven found in the Word of God. But even when we do that, we find there are many things about heaven that are not easy to understand. Because heaven is not like planet earth, it seems mysterious to us. Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven will answer and clarify the most important questions Christians have about their future eternal home. Pastor David Jeremiah provides answers to questions about the nature of heaven, the kinds of bodies heaven’s occupants will have, why heaven will never be boring, why infants and small children will go to heaven, and the dwelling place God is preparing for Christians in heaven. Answers to those questions and more—eleven critical issues in all—are revealed in this Turning Point study guide. If you have had questions about heaven—especially about how to get there—let Pastor David Jeremiah be your guide. Your eternal home will become as clear on earth as it is in heaven. 

The idea of heaven is interesting, beautiful, and—as Jeremiah titles his book—mysterious. Dr. David Jeremiah covers a lot of aspects of heaven that will definitely surprise you and challenge you. Here are a few scriptures that Jeremiah mentioned that I found pretty cool, the subject matter considered: 

• 1 John 2:15-17

• Ecclesiastes 3:11

• Colossians 3:2

• Acts 1:11

Come in to the Cross Reference Library and check out Revealing the Mysteries of Heaven by Dr. David Jerimiah and find out more of what he had to say about heaven.

The Names Of God Continued - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Jonathan Hernandez.

Ben Cline
Well, I'm gonna get our conversation started this morning. You know, again, like you said Jonathan, that this is kind of a continuing conversation for us. That we started talking about some of the names of God last week, and it just is such a huge topic. It's such a huge thing for us. You know, not just as pastors, right? But as followers, followers of Jesus Christ. And, you know, you and I were talking this morning about how there really is kind of this long, long, long list of the different names of God. And the question is, "why is it important for us to study the names of God? Why is it important for us to know them?" Well, you know, for you listeners out there, if you're wondering what the answer to that question is, well we get to look at the names of God and we get to study the names of God, so that we know more about who He is. You know, we were at a KCMI event last night, and Bryan Clark was the speaker, and he was talking about how God is the creator of all things. And He seems like such a big God, but you know, the name change that happens in Genesis 2 is the first time that that name Yahweh is mentioned. And that name of God means that He's a relational God. And so, He wants us to know more about who He is. And I think that that's why we need to be studying the names of God in scripture. So I ran across a couple of names, you know, of God and things that I wanted to talk about this morning. The first one is Yahweh. And we might say Yahweh or Jehovah, and they're kind of interchangeable; in the English version of what we say and what we study about. But Yahweh Rapha is one that I ran across. And the word Rapha---and again, it's not important for us to necessarily know those original Hebrew names. But, you know, it is important for us to know what they mean, because that's how it really applies to us, knowing who God is. But Yahweh Rapha, it means "the Lord who heals." And this comes from a passage in Exodus 15, and God is talking about the importance of the Israelites obeying Him. To do what is right in His eyes, in God's eyes, to give ear to his commandments and to keep all his statutes. And then he says, "if you do this, I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians." And, you know, of course those are the people that the Israelites were fleeing from. And then he says at the end of that verse, "For I am Yahweh Rapha, the Lord your healer." And so, that word, Yahweh Rapha means "the Lord who heals." And, I think the way that we can understand that through scripture is that God is healer. And I think the first thing that we think of when we hear that God is the healer, that he's our physical healer---and yes, it is true that God is our healer. And in fact, God is called the great physician. He's the one who, you know, knit us from our mother's wombs, and He knows us down to the very number of hairs on our head. And, you know, we understand God that way. In his will, if we're dealing with some sort of a physical ailment, or something like that, can God heal us? Well, the answer is yes, He can if He chooses to right? And so we can think of Him that way. But we also think of this in terms of spiritual healing. God is our spirit spiritual healer. And there's a passage in Isaiah 53, and it's in verse five. I just wanna read it through real quick, cause this is where it was first mentioned. But it says, "but he was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities. Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace. And with his wounds, we are healed." And then that's brought up again in 1 Peter 2:24. Peter's talking there and he says about Jesus Christ, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree. That we might die to sin and live to righteousness." And then he brings up what Isaiah said. He says, "by his wounds, you have been healed." So, the fact that this is prophesied about in the Old Testament, about the Messiah going through all of this physical suffering, well, why did he do that? It ultimately led to His death. But he did that to pay the penalty for our transgressions, to pay the penalty for our sentence. And that is the only way by, you know, accepting that truth, accepting that as a free gift. That's the only way that we can be spiritually healed, and be given eternal life. So those are a couple of ways that we can understand God as the healer. As Yahweh Rapha. And there's another one that I wanted to talk about this morning too, and that's Yahweh---and I'm gonna completely butcher the pronounciation of this---but I think it's pronounced Mekadesh. You only do what you can do, right? But Mekadesh means sanctification, so it's "the Lord who sanctifies or makes holy." And one of the things that we need to understand about God, and maybe there's some of you who don't understand that word sanctification. Well, it just means to be set apart from something. And when we're speaking about God sanctifying us, it means that He is setting us apart from the world's system that we live in. And so Yahweh Mekadesh means, "the Lord who sanctifies." One of the things that we find through scripture is that, you know, God really makes it clear that He makes us holy, not through our works, He makes us holy. "Not even through the law that He gave, but that it's only through Jesus Christ," in Romans 3, the entire chapter is about this. But He establishes the fact that in and of ourselves, there's no righteousness in us. There's no way to be sanctified in and of ourselves. And then in verse 21, picking up there, it says, "But now apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed as attested by the law and the prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." And then it goes into a verse that I think a lot of us have memorized. It says, "there is no distinction. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." And then verse 24, it says, "And are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." So, you know, that's what that name reminds me of. Yahweh Mekadesh, "the Lord who sanctifies," the Lord who makes us holy. And we're not made holy because we do things that are righteous, because we do things that are really good in the sight of God. We're made holy through that sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And only by faith in Him.

Jonathan Hernandez
Those are some great names. And I liked how, as you were starting just talking about, you know, as we know these names, it helps build that relationship with God even more. Because when I know someone I know, you know, their character, I know all of these things. So, you know, as we start building a relationship and Pastor Gary too---that's usually the third guy with us, but he's gone today and we're praying that he has an amazing time. And, you know, so as we grow closer to each other, we start learning characteristics. And as we grow closer to God, these are opportunities for us to learn, you know, these names of him and these characters and characteristics that he, you know, that he carries. So today, one of the ones that I have is Jehovah Nissi, and we kind of covered a little bit of this last week, just kind of what it means. But I guess there's so much to these that we could just really spin probably a whole show on just each one. And so, Jehovah Nissi is "the Lord is my Banner." And we see this out of Exodus 17:15, and Moses built an altar and named it, "The Lord is my Banner." And so we're introduced to this, obviously it's this Hebrew name, Jehovah Nissi. And it's the story of the Israelites and Moses, where their just kind of wandering around in the wilderness. And Moses, he's the first one to call upon the Lord in this manner of Jehovah Nissi. Like I said, this is Exodus 17 and, you know, as we give these scripture references, hopefully the readers jot these down real quick. And you know, are able to go and, like, really look into, you know, each of these names. But here are the Israelites, they're facing the Amalekites in battle and they're overwhelmed by this force in a sense. You know, this army is, man these guys are warriors. You know, these guys are fighters and they're experienced, and this army, you know, has the best commanders, has the best, you know, they have everything. And they feel like they're gonna lose. I mean, that's probably kind of how their feeling, you know, we're just kind of reading it, I guess, into scripture a little bit there. But, you know, they're feeling that overwhelming presence a little bit. And they're just, you know, the Israelites, they're just farmers. They're, you know, they're herdsmen. They were just slaves not too long ago. You know, they're just escaping in a sense. You know, they're traveling with women and children, and they have all their herd, and they have all their possessions. The battle was really for survival, you know, for a future, for hope. And here they battle. But the great thing is, they weren't just traveling with just the children, with just, you know, the herds and the wives and their possessions. They had something else that they were traveling with. And, you know, they were traveling with a pillar of fire, you know, a cloud of smoke. The very presence of God was traveling with them. And, you know, this is something that Moses realizes, and he's able to see this and, you know, not only is he traveling with all these things that he physically, in a sense, sees, but, you know, he's traveling with this presence of God. And the great thing is, even for today, you know, sometimes we go up against these battles in our lives and it's tough and it's hard. And, you know, there's times where we're like, "I'm gonna lose this battle." It's tough, right? And I think one of the things that we need to realize, just as Moses did, "I'm not traveling alone. You know, I'm not traveling just with my wife and kids and my possessions, and I have three animals. I'm not just traveling with them, you know? I'm traveling with the presence of God, cause He's here with us." And so, you know, Moses says here, "Jehovah Nissi, the Lord is my banner." And I think we can say that same thing as we go against different things or have certain---I don't know what some of our listeners may be battling. A season of whatever it is, depression or something. And they can say, you know, "Jehovah Nissi, "the Lord is my banner." As I go through this battle, I'm not alone. I have God with me." And if we think of a banner, you know, like when I first heard this word, we did a series a couple years ago on the names of God at church. And this is one of the ones I went and I'm like, you know, kind of studying. And I was like, man, it's so crazy cause, like, you know, I was never in the military, so I don't have some of the understanding of some of these things. And, you know, as I was studying this, it was talking about some of these, you know, people going into battle and they're carrying this or carrying that. And, you know, so we think of, when I raise a banner, you know, I think of a flag or something along those lines. You know, like if we're at church camp, we all have like these banners that were, you know: I'm Team Blue, I'm Team Red, you know, I'm Team Green. Or whatever your team name is, and so you're carrying around this banner all weekend, but it's describing who you are. You know, and so we're carrying this banner that's saying, "Hey, we're believers in Jesus Christ. And not only are we believers, but we carry the presence of the Holy Spirit with us wherever we're going." And so, you know, I just wanna encourage you guys, as you are going through these battles, know who you are with, you know, who is walking with you through these battles? Who are you---you know, in a sense you have this banner that you're carrying and you're saying, "I am a follower of Christ, He is Jehovah Nissi. He is Jehovah Rapha, He is my healer." You know? He is these things as we, you know, can go into these battles. The other name that I wanted to talk about today was Jehovah Shalom. And this is translated, "the Lord is Peace." We see this in the story of Gideon, you know, when the angel of the Lord appeared to him, Judges 6, there we go. Sometimes my mind goes into other places, but Jehovah Shalom, it's translated "the Lord is peace." It's one of the Old Testament names of God, obviously if it's speaking of Gideon. And so, in those days, the children of Israel were living in a state of fear, because of everything that's going on. The Midianites, they once defeated this army, and they're kind of coming back up and they're kind of terrorizing Israel with an overwhelming mob-like force. And their going around, and Gideon wasn't immune to anxiety. He wasn't immune to waves of uncertainty, and, you know, I think that's us too. We're not immune to some of these things like anxiety or uncertainty of things. You know Gideon, he had this uncertainty that was sweeping the nation. Matthew Henry writes a little bit here, then he says, "Gideon was distressed. He was thrashing his wheat, not in the proper place, but by a wine press in some private unsuspected corner for fear of this army. Fearful of the attack and the worry about the safety of their families. The Israelites, like Gideon took to hiding in dens in the mountains and in the caves and in the strong holds in Judges 6:2." So this is, you know, Matthew Henry wrote some good commentary. And so he's talking about, here's Gideon, he's distressed, you know, he's fearful. He has a little bit of anxiety, possibly some of these things like, "I don't know what's gonna happen, and I'm a little fearful of this force that's coming against us. And so instead of doing what I usually do here, I'm gonna kind of hide in the back a little bit. I still have work that I need to get done, but we're gonna do it in a kind of hidden place." It was a season of personal national unrest. Then the angel of the Lord appears to Gideon, and he's commissioning him to lead Israel and deliver them from this torment, you know, these tormentors. And Matthew Henry continues, he says, "The day of the greatest distress, and it is God's time to appear for people's relief." What is your greatest distress right now? Like, maybe some of you listeners are like, "I don't have anything. You know, I'm good." And man I'm like, that's amazing, that's great. We need some tips. But when we're in that place, you know, this is a time that God's gonna appear and give us relief. You know, we're just like Jehovah Nissi, we're not fighting alone. We're carrying, you know, the presence of God. And, you know, this was certainly true of Gideon's calling. You know, if you guys go back and read through all of these, you know, through Judges 6, and just start seeing some of this stuff, you know, it's amazing what happens. The Lord, He reminds this new warrior, you know, Gideon, soon to be judge. You know, He's reminding him, you know, and telling him who he is, and that the Lord is with him. The Lord is here. You know, the Lord's gonna be through him, through this entire process. But one of the biggest things that the Lord gives them in that is peace, you know? And I think as we go through the battles and the different things that we're walking through, one of the things that we need is peace. I mean, that's what I always pray. Like, if I'm facing something, I'm like, "God, give me peace in the situation." Cause I know my anxiety can overtake me at times. And that's something I've struggled with my whole life, is anxiety. And, you know, the great thing is that we have an amazing God that when we're struggling with these things, we can say, "You know what God, I need your peace today. You know, I need you to help me as I walk through these things." And so, you know, what are you guys dealing with this morning? What battle, in this sense, are you facing? One of the biggest things that God can give you in this time is peace. To help you process everything that's going on. You know, maybe it's a decision within. You know, maybe you have a new work decision, you know, you have a job and you know someone else is offering you something. Like, you just need peace in those situations. It could be, you know, you're battling cancer right now and, you know, yes, God can heal you, but He's also gonna give you peace during this time. You know, instead of having to deal with the anxiety of everything that's going on, you know, also ask God, "you are Jehovah Shalom. You are the one that is peace. You know shalom, peace. And so God, give me peace as I battle through these things." And so, you know, for me, that's something that I usually pray, "God, I need peace in this situation." So, you know, that's an easy, or I guess not easy, but that's an opportunity for you guys. You know, let's pray, you know, some of these scriptures out, you know? How can you open these names of God and use them in your prayer life? You know, use them in your devotions or whatever, you know. Me and my wife went through a book, I was trying to remember the name of it and I can't find it. And so, if I find it I'll let you guys know what the name of it is. But it was just the names of God, and it was a devotional that told you the name and it told you scriptures and you read through it, and then you basically just journaled through. And me and my wife spent a couple months just walking through. You know, it didn't obviously have all the names of God, but it had a lot of them. And so I encourage you guys to just kind of, like, read through those and, you know, see what God is speaking to you as you guys read through these names of God. So, just to close out, I was reading through an article, and at the very end of this article this lady asked a question. And this is a question that, you know, comes from when Jesus was talking to his disciples, and Jesus asked his disciples, "Who do you say that I am?" And they all answered, you know, in different things, "Well, these people say this, these people say that." And finally, you know, instead of Jesus just allowing them to continue to go through this, "Well, these people say this." He stopped them, and he says, "But what about you? What do you, or who do you say that I am?" And I encourage you readers to, or you listeners today, to stop and quit saying, "this is who everybody says you are God." But get to the point. You could say, "you know what God, this is who you are. This is what I see in Scripture. This is who I know you to be, because of our relationship that I have with you. And so I would encourage each of you guys to get to that point where you can say, you know, "This is who you are." And I could be confident about that because I've been through the, you know, I'm in the scriptures. I'm in a, you know, that devotional life with you. I have that intimate relationship.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library? Truth Be Told!

Truth Changes Everything - Most Americans now believe that Truth is up to the individual, rather than something we can objectively know. People talk about “speaking my truth” rather than “seeking the Truth.” Faced with unprecedented levels of social conflict, purposelessness, and hopelessness, we desperately need to know whether Truth exists and how we can find it. In this inspiring book, Dr. Jeff Myers tells the fascinating stories of Jesus followers who lived for Truth and transformed their world in times of crisis. These determined and often quirky figures led the way in human dignity, science, art, medicine, education, politics, justice, and even the idea of meaningful work. If you sense that we live in hopeless days, it’s time to discover how Truth changes everything, everywhere, all the time. 

Come Sit With Me -  Being human is hard. Being in a relationship with other humans is even harder. But loving one another well is possible. In Come Sit with Me, more than two dozen (in)courage writers help you navigate tough relational tensions by revealing their own hard-fought, grace-filled learning moments. They show you how to: 

• Delight in your differences 

• Honor and value others even when disagree

• Connect before you correct

• Trust that God is working even when people disappoint you

Whether you’re in the middle of a conflict without resolution or wondering how to enter into a friend’s pain, this book will serve as the guide you need to move through challenges and grow closer to God. And it starts by inviting God and others to simply “come sit with me.”

Consistent living in Leadership - Ask the Pastor

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Mike Clement, Michael Gleb, Tony Malm, and company.

Mike Clement
We started this conversation and I said, "Well, wait a minute. Let's go back and talk about this." And so, Brother Tony, you were talking about the importance of the idea that what you're preaching from the pulpit isn't just a motivational speech. It's something that needs to be lived out, including you and your family.

Tony Malm
Yes. Oftentimes when we were on the road in evangelism, I would make the statement to that congregation, of course, in evangelism, you're with a different congregation every week. And I would remind them that, "Hey, what I'm preaching here is not just something for Sunday. As a matter of fact, my wife's in the congregation, our son, our daughters, I'm preaching to my family. I'm not just preaching at you people, that we maybe see once a year, but Christianity is something that's to be fleshed out, if you will. It's to find itself in shoe leather on the Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays of life. And, you know, it's amazing how, at least from my perspective, that sometimes people have the idea that being a Christian is all mystical and you escape the realities---the raw realities sometimes---that life can bring. But the fact is, as a pastor, and that's what these programs I've picked up on have had to do from the pastor and his family. Not only does it say that the pastors be the husband of one wife, but the Bible and just two, three verses later says, "one that ruleth well, his own house and having his children in subjection with all gravity." That's from 1 Timothy 3:4. And so the measuring rod for the pastor's qualification has to do with the home. And not that the preachers kids are perfect. I mean, the deacons kids usually are teaching them....No, I'm kidding. But honestly, my children probably heard the first curse words they ever heard, sitting on a pew in a church. And I know that's gonna blow some away to hear that. But we were in church daily and many of the conferences that we were blessed to be a part of, and so there's the reality of, you know, Christianity. It follows us not just from Sunday to Sunday, but from day to day and moment to moment and interaction and challenge. Just right on the way, we have the opportunity to honor the Lord. And God says, if we honor Him, He'll honor us. And I'm so thankful, and I don't wanna take up the whole program, but you know, the greatest blessing for a parent is a child. John said, "I have no greater joy than my children walking in truth." And I'm sitting at a table tonight with two of our children, and I'm thankful for our son, and he and his family are faithful in their church. But a daughter that's just married a pastor, and that has experienced the fact that if you honor God, He'll honor you. As they came to the marriage alter, they brought the gift of purity. It's irreplaceable. And I just pray that God will continue to bless their home, and I know He will, and I'm excited for them. Yet this thing about the gravity in the fact that, you know, what the pastor's preaching to everybody else, well, he's got a checkpoint. Because mom's sitting there, children are sitting there, and so it's a blessing to serve the Lord.

Mike Clement
Years ago, I heard of a congregation that saw a real disparity, wrong word. Whatever, between the pastors preaching. The pastors preaching from the pulpit and the life that he lived during the rest of the week. And someone made the comment. They said "when he preaches, he preaches in a way that we wish that he would never get down. But when he lives during the week, he lives in such a way we wish that he would never get back up again."

Tony Malm
Wow.

Mike Clement
And unfortunately, that happens. You know, that same passage that talks about the qualifications of pastors or bishops. It says, "A bishop then must be blameless." Now, you should understand that blameless does not mean perfect.

Tony Malm
It's not sinless.

Mike Clement
Yeah, it's not sinless. However, I believe that the things that God had in mind are the rest of the things he gives there. But these are the things that, you know, need to be in line with the pastor's life. And it may not be all where we would like to see them. I've always looked for men who are growing, that I can put in positions of leadership. And there have been times when we had somebody come from another church, and I looked at the maturity level of some of our deacons, and he said, "Pastor, you know, why is he a deacon?" And I said, "you can only see where he is right now. You should see where he came from, and the direction that he's going in." I would much rather have somebody in a position of leadership and influence that is growing in their Christian walk. Though, somewhat less mature than somebody who's very mature and dead in the head in every other way. You know, their life may be going in the opposite direction. They may know more about the Bible, but they're not living it. And that's so important. Brother Gleb, how do we apply this from the perspective of being bivocational? Can you define what it means to be bivocational?

Michael Gleb
I'm not a bivocational pastor though.

Mike Clement
You were though, weren't you for a while?

Michael Gleb
No, Actually haven't been able to, and that's, that's been a huge blessing to be able to---

Mike Clement
But comment on it anyway.

Michael Gleb
Well, I'll say this is, you know, sometimes I'm always reminded. I'm like, you know, I'll be up here at the office study in a way, and then I get up on Wednesday night and wonder why they're not as excited as I am to go through the book of Ecclesiastes. And I'm looking out, and I'm thinking to myself, "They've been smacked around by the world today, you know?" And here I was getting excited about studying the Bible, that's what I was doing all day. And, you know, so I have to check myself in that regard and say, "Wait. A little patience with these guys. You know, their tired, they've got the world on them." I sometimes think to myself, "you know, it's a privilege to be able to pastor and not have---and I've been in ministry now, since 2006, full-time ministry. And it looked different in different times, but you know, it's a privilege to be able to study God's word, to help somebody. And when they do come to you on a Wednesday night to give them some encouragement, some needed strength for the rest of the week, so to speak. But, I can't really comment on being bivocational at this point in time, but the Lord may lead me in that direction. Who knows?

Mike Clement
Well, I know for me, there were a couple blessings. One was, I met people that I wouldn't normally meet. I worked with them, you know, they may not come to my church and I might stumble across them at Walmart or something. But I worked with these guys and these gals and so I could see the world that they lived in, and they could watch me live in the same world. And that actually was a blessing. The other thing that helped me understand, was people's limited time. And especially when I was working at the Sugar Beet factory, there was a rotating shift. If you were days this week, you worked afternoons the next week, and you worked midnight the next week, and it rotated around. And boy, some of those were just killers. And then I come to church, you know, just really shot. And that was when my wife's father was the pastor, and I would struggle to stay awake. Just got off of a midnight shift, not enough time to get any kind of a nap. And boy, I would just struggle. And it just gave me a greater appreciation. But that whole idea of being visible, you know, we talk about being visible in the church, the people that are in the church, you're visible in the community too.

Michael Gleb
Yeah. Being in a smaller town like Torrington, you know, I've been here and getting to know people now, the last five years. You know, you go into the radar for the first couple, but you start to get self-involved and, you know, getting friends even outside of church.

Mike Clement
Yeah. And again, there's another place we're talking about. Qualification. It is talking about having a good report with them or without.

Michael Gleb
Yes.

Mike Clement
That's the people you do business with. That's your next door neighbor.

Michael Gleb
And business with. That's important.

Mike Clement
Yeah. I heard a preacher, he was actually a professor at Dallas Seminary, but he just bought a new house. And it was a real deal, because it was the worst looking house in the neighborhood. And so he just threw himself into doing the inside. But he did the outside too, you know, he was planting grass and cutting grass. And he says, he's out there on a real hot, nasty day, sweating like fury. And there's this kid, a neighbor kid that's watching him, and the neighbor kid says to him, "my dad says, 'for a preacher, you sure do work a lot." A little insight to what the neighbor thought. But also a little insight into, you know, what the perspective of a pastor was. And then he said, "the previous owner of that house was a pastor as well." And, you know, we don't worship our lawns. We don't worship our houses. But for people that feel that that's really important, watching their property values go down because of what's going on in your house is important to them and it's got to be important to us. So that whole area of consistency, being the same person---and we've got to be careful because we are called as pastors, were called to be the leader of the church and to lead the flock. But I remember one guy at a conference I went to, he said, "a pastor that's three steps in front of his church is a leader. A pastor that's 12 steps in front of his church is a martyr? You know, you need to understand where your people are, and you bring them along. You know, the shepherd doesn't go running across the field and say, "Keep up!" He's in front at that time. He was in front, but he wasn't aways in front. Always ever to be seen.

Tony Malm
A preacher Evan Hill from Los Angeles talked about, you know, "If you call yourself a leader, but if nobody's following you, your just taking a walk."

Michael Gleb
That's exactly what came to my mind.

Tony Malm
And, you know, in 1 Peter it says, "The elders, which are among you." This thing of being among the people is what I'm hearing. And there's gotta be that interaction. You know, there's even an effort now, an effort of movement; of rather than having a pastor among you and on location, is to go and watch something. And he's in another town. But the Bible says, "among you." The marvel! No wonder God says that it pleased Him by the foolishness of preaching. Here's a person that's breathing the air you breathe, they experienced the hardships. You experienced the same tornado that tore up your house, tore up their house. And yet God uses them with His grace to demonstrate His love. It's undeniable. And only who, but the Lord could have come up with that. We're not just in ivory towers. We live on the same road the other folks live on.

Mike Clement
That's right. As my football coach said, "we put on our pants one leg at a time." You know, I just close with a thought. Years ago, I was making payments to IRS, and I was gonna miss a payment and I knew it. So I went down to the office and I actually got to talk to the guy who was in charge there. Brought me into his office, and I told him what was going on. He said, "well, have you missed any other payments?" I said, "No," and he tapped on his computer and looked at the screen. He said, "Yes, you did. You missed the first one." Well, the first one was in April. I had just finished paying one year, got ready to start paying the next year. And I said, "Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I really did." And then he said, "Well, you know, we'll make an exception this time. It's all right, you came in." And then we started just talking. And he said, "You know, it's hard for me to go to church anywhere? And I said, "Is that because you work for IRS, and people don't trust you or whatever?" He said, "No, it's because I know what's going on in the finances of the leadership of the church." And then I said, "Oh, and here I am missing a payment." He said, "No, you came in and you made arrangements." He said, "That's what needs to be done." He said, "By the way, if you're gonna miss another one, make sure you call us before you come in." But boy, I mean, it was something to be learned. Terrible experience there.