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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Cline, Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.
Gary Schick
Okay, here's the question. "The Puritans play a prominent role in our observance of Thanksgiving. Can you tell us more about these people and their faith?" And Jonathan, would you get us started?
Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so I had to do quite a bit of research, cause I didn't know a lot, I guess. So I guess the question talks about Puritans so we can, I guess we'll hit on that. They were a group of people that were, I guess part of the church in England. And a good majority, you'd have two different groups, you had the Separatists, I think that's how you say it. And then the ones that didn't wanna separate from the church. Those kind of the two groups of that Puritan thought process I guess. And they were really wanting to, I guess they were a movement that was trying to separate the Anglian type of church culture that they were wanting to move into, and separate from more of that Catholic church mindset. And so they wanted to make sure that their influence was purely scripturally motivated. And then they also wanted to eliminate from their beliefs anything that was rituals or practices that weren't really directly found in scripture. So they didn't wanna just do something because it was what we've always done. They wanted to make sure it was, "this is what scripture shows and so then we'll go with that," their beliefs. And from what I found on the internet, some of their beliefs was that there's a judgmental God. God rewards good and punishes evil, predestination, the elect, the original sin, God's grace and providence. And so that was some of the beliefs that they would, I guess, walk in. And so, if we're talking about Thanksgiving as a holiday, we would talk more about the Pilgrims, and the other guys, we'll get more into that as we move forward. But the Puritans, I guess if we separate them from the Pilgrims, they came over to America more in that 1630, somewhere around that time, to Boston. And they were also ordered from the king to establish a colony there. And so they came over with the goods, with the backing of England in that sense, to come and establish a colony there that would really be England on this side of the states. Well obviously, it wasn't the states back then, but (laugh). So that's kind of where they came over from, that they really wanted to separate and have religious freedom. A lot of them, and this is where we see the pilgrims coming over, is cause they were coming over because they wanted to have that religious freedom. And some of the Puritans really, I guess some of them later on were still part of the Church of England. "We haven't separated from them, and so we're coming over to establish that here." And as you guys will talk about the Pilgrims, they were coming over to run away from that culture. And so that's where we see it. My family, I guess if we're talking about Thanksgiving, we celebrate it and more of the thought of us getting together as a family and thanking the Lord. And we see that, I guess some of that within the pilgrims. They were thanking God for that first harvest and they were celebrating with the people that had survived through that dreadful first year. And then also you would see the Native Americans that came apart and celebrated with them during that first harvest. Cause they were the ones that helped teach them how to grow the crops, how to fish. How to do those type of things, and how to live in this environment opposed to where they were from. So kind of, I guess some of the history that I had found within that.
Ben Cline
I always think back when I get questions like this, that my worst subject in school was history. And so I have to do a lot of looking, but I kind of wanted to focus a little bit on the Pilgrims and their faith. Because our celebration of Thanksgiving does really revolve more around the Pilgrims than it does the Puritans. And there's a difference there. But it was interesting reading about the pilgrims, because they truly were separatists from the Church of England. They left England in 1608 and they interestingly went to Holland to seek religious freedom there; to be able to worship according to their conscience. And they were only there for, I think, 12 years or something before they decided to leave there. Because the economy and the culture there was not really allowing them to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish. And so they set off for the new world, and ended up landing in Massachusetts in 1620. And that's all of the history that I really wrote down. But I was just focusing on the beliefs of the Pilgrims being separatists from the Church of England. Number one: they rejected the institutional Church of England as Separatists. And so the first thing that I was thinking of, that I was reading about, is that they believed that the worship of God must originate in the inner man. And so I was just thinking of, what are some of the scriptures that were maybe running through their minds as they were formulating that sense of worship. John 4:24, "God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in spirit and truth." So they were probably seeking the truth of worshiping God. Luke 4:8, "Jesus says, 'worship the Lord your God and serve Him only." And I think that's probably something that they were seeking; was to be worshiping God only and not the institution that they felt like man had created. Psalm 66:4, it says, "all the earth bows down to you. They sing praise to you, they sing praises to your name." Romans 12:1, this is a familiar verse to us, "present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your spiritual service of worship." And so they had this desire to be worshiping God according to the way that they understood God was asking them to worship Him. And then the second part of what I was reading about, what the pilgrims believed is that they didn't see church as a building. They didn't really see church as this physical institution, but they saw it more as we see it now. We talk about this a lot in church, that church is not this building that you come to, but it is the body of Christ. And that really goes on and is talked about more in Romans 12, starting in verse three. He talks about how the body of Christ, we all have gifts that, He's made us all gifted in different ways. But the reason why, is because He wants us to work together as the body of Christ, as the church. And so I think those were maybe just some things that they could have studied as they were formulating that belief system that they came over to the new world with.
Gary Schick
Yeah, in many ways they were kind of the seed from which modern evangelicalism has grown. In many ways, in terms of independent churches, in terms of Back to the Bible, in terms of a personal faith versus an institutional faith. And I think you both drew the line really well. I think it gets confusing in people's minds; people say Puritan and mean Pilgrims. And yeah, actually the difference between the Puritans and the Separatists is right there in the names. And what they were seeing happening in England is something that we are seeing. I mean, it's been going on for ages. There is a tendency, however the church begins, for it to slowly institutionalize and to sort of start to drift away from scripture. And so shortly after the reformation, England was kind of going back and forth in its relationship to Catholicism, and the Church of England was kind of the result. And there were some really great things about it. It had reformed to the scripture in some ways, but not completely in others. And there was an institutional aspect which maybe wasn't so great, but there were some good things happening. And so the Puritans were a group within who, their goal was to purify, Puritans to purify the church from within. So the Puritans are the ones who hung in there and they said, "we are the Church of England, we are not leaving the Church of England. We are going to be God's light within to bring this institution around to a more biblical base." The separatists, just by definition, they separated out. They didn't go to church at the local Episcopal church, which was the Church of England. They had their gatherings in the countryside, and houses and farmhouses, and whatever; barns. And really, the famous guy from them is John Bunyan, who wrote The Pilgrim's Progress. Sadly, I'll bet most of our listeners have never read The Pilgrim's Progress. But there was a time when pretty much, in every Christian home in America you had three books. You had the Bible, you had Fox's Book of Martyrs, and you had John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress. And Pilgrim's Progress, he wrote it while he was in jail and starts as if he's, "While I was in jail I had this dream," or something to that effect. And it is an allegory, where it's very symbolic, this guy's journey from the city of Destruction, which is the city of this world to the heavenly kingdom. And how he came, first, as he's coming out, he's hearing the words of the prophets and he's fleeing freeing for his life, and he flees the city of destruction. He finally comes to the foot of the cross, where literally the burden drops off his back and he receives the gift. So they had a very evangelical understanding of the gift by salvation, by faith through Christ and Christ alone. Great book. If you've never read it, read it. But as you pointed out, these separatists as you pointed out Ben, these separatists first go to Holland. And one of the things that I remember about them is that they're actually doing pretty well there, but their kids, just like our kids, are starting to blend in with the culture and speak the language of the culture. And for them, that literally meant speaking another language. Speaking Dutch as opposed to English, and just taking on the Dutch culture, and maybe in some other ways starting to drift away from their Biblical roots. And so they're like, "no, this isn't good," and so they go back to England and they eventually board the Mayflower. And after a horrific voyage, they land in New England, north of where they wanted. They wanted to go further south where it was a little warmer. They get there. Have you ever watched the show Alone? Basically you're watching 10 people out starve one another, trying to win 50 or 500 grand, and whoever is basically the last one who can take it out there. And every now and then somebody will bring down an elk or something. They'll bring down some massive animal, and they'll have some food to survive on. But, this is the pilgrims, they get---and the thing about Alone that is so appropriate to this, is they put these people, these 10 people in some remote location late enough in the year that they really don't have time to build, gather, and prepare for winter. And so it really is, it's a show of just scratching by, and that was the pilgrims. They were the first episode of Alone. They get to New England when it's well past time to plant or even really harvest. Winter's coming, they have to pull together some bare bone shelters, people are sick, they're sick from the voyage. I think, as we've pointed out, I think over half of them died that winter. The handful that were left are taking care of the sick and it's ugly. These people are sick, their---well, I probably can't say it on the radio. It's coming out from everywhere, let's just put it that way, and they are really sick. And so the people that are left are having to change the clothing and change the bedding and it's gross. And they only would've survived, I think based on the kindness of the natives. And I think in our minds, the way we've kind of gone to school, and that we've dreamed up this image of the first Thanksgiving, it's probably a little different than the way it really was. I think well, what did you say, Jonathan? You thought they probably ate eel, because that's what the natives had helped them learn to fish. I mean, whether there was any Turkey, there was probably venison. One of the things I remember reading is that they did play games. So we talk about, "oh, they've secularized Thanksgiving with all this football." Well, they probably didn't play football, but as you point out, they may have played lacrosse, the native game. There was some friendship there as time unfolds, they probably didn't continue to treat those natives at all the way they should have. But they were treated well by the natives, and probably only survived because of them. Teaching them to plant, teaching them to fish, teaching them to so many things. And so I think there's some good that we can come together about, and say, "you know what, thank you Lord that there were some people who welcomed them to this land." Would that it had stayed that way, I don't think the Pilgrims, who were looking for some religious toleration didn't turn around and end up being all that tolerant as they set up shop in New England. But history happened and we are still a work in progress. I think that's what America is, it is a work in progress. But there's some pictures there that I think, this is what we need to strive for. And as I was thinking about this, as we were even talking right before we dug in, I thought about those words in Revelation 7 where John talks about what's coming. He says, "and after this, I looked and behold a great multitude that no one could number from every nation, from every tribe and people and language standing before the throne and before the land clothed in white with palm branches in their hands and crying out in a loud voice, 'salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the lamb." So as Christians, we have some distant memories of what that might have been. We really don't know a great deal, but we also know where we're going. And I think Thanksgiving can be a day to strive toward. A good day for all of us, who in one way or another, found ourselves in this wonderful land of plenty. And making America what it should have been and should be. Just one nation of people from every background, for people of every background where the gospel can be freely offered to people of every background. And boy, that is my prayer, is that we'll come together and just really honor Jesus in our own homes. Enjoy the day. It's only a day, they had it, I think, for several days. Was it three to five or something? Three days. So can you just imagine, stop. We kind of do that at the end of the year. Between Christmas and new years, everything slows way down. That's what they did. They just slowed down to give thanks for the harvest and to give thanks to the Lord.