You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.
This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Mike Clement, David Clement and Michael Gleb.
Mike Clement
We've been looking at some of the hymns that are more familiar, they're older hymns, and they've passed the test of time. And I picked out one for us to look at today, it's a Christmas hymn. This is, you know, the end of November, we're coming up on Christmas. And, you know, years ago we had a lady that came, actually it was a woman and her daughter. And they played the Vibraharp, the Marimba and piano, they had all kinds of neat stuff. And they said they were from the Seattle area and they were hired by shopping malls to play Christmas music. And the comment was made, because Christmas music is not allowed in public schools any longer, many people miss the Christmas music. And they were hired just to play music in the malls, it was kind of interesting. Anyway, the hymn that we're gonna look at is, Oh, Come All Ye Faithful. And we were talking a little bit about the fact that a lot of hymns have good rich theology, and that was something that the hymn writers used to really focus on. It wasn't just to sell song, and it wasn't just to become popular. They wanted to communicate a message, and they wanted that message to be a biblical message. And there's a line in here every time I sing it, it kind of gets me, and now I gotta find it. It's in the second stanza, the second stanza says, "God of God and light of light begotten, low He abhors not the virgins womb." And there's a fascinating concept that, you know, the Lord Jesus Christ was the second person of the Trinity, the creator of heaven and earth, and in the book of Hebrews, it says, "He humbled Himself and became obedient even to the death of a cross." But He humbled Himself to actually be in the womb of Mary, and that's just an incredible thought. And then it goes on, it says, "A very God begotten not created." There are those that reject the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ, the idea that Jesus is equal with God, the father, and equal with God, the son. In fact, we had a lady in our church who went on a vacation with some of her sisters, they're all grown. She said they were on the beach in California and one of them turned to her and said, "Sandy, you go to church, don't you?" She said, "Yeah, I do." And the gal said, "Did you know that Jesus was God?" And Sandy said, "Uh, yes, I did." She said, "Well, I knew He was good, and I knew He taught things. I knew He healed people, but I didn't know He was, God, I just found that out. And there are some people that reject the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ. And those that do, oftentimes will use the phrase that we find in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son," and they kind of hang on that. See, Jesus was begotten, He was created, and so He was not eternal and He was not God. Now that term begotten, is not talking about origin, that is a position, that is a designation that, begotten. In one of the Psalms, it says that the father declared Him to be the begotten, He made Him the begotten. And so, this actually is underlying the full deity of the Lord, Jesus Christ. He was not created, He was begotten, He was declared to be the Son of God. So this is a great Christmas hymn, any thoughts on that guys?
Michael Gleb
You know, a great deal of Jesus' ministry was convincing people that He was God. I mean, honestly, you go look at the life of Christ, and I spent time when I first got to Torrington Baptist, just going over the life of Christ and miracles and His travels. I'm forgetting the other things, but I spent a great deal of time in some of those important passages. And it struck me that He just spent a great deal of time convincing the Pharisees, Sadducees, and others that were lost that He was His own personal deity. And so yeah, I mean, not created, not a created being like you and I are. And by the way, in Genesis, we know full well in the account of the creation, and there's a plurality there that's mentioned, I can't remember what verse, I don't have it in front of me.
Mike Clement
There's a number of places right in the beginning. "Let us make man in our own image"
Michael Gleb
That's right, "Let us make man," yeah, absolutely. But that's one of the things that struck me about the life of Christ, was when I was going back and somebody had asked me, a while back, what would I teach somebody that's struggling with salvation? And I think I had mentioned that because it was heavy on my heart and I was thinking about it and maybe even preaching through it was, that Jesus is God. I don't know why I said that at the moment, but there was some other reasons.
David Clement
Good, yeah. Well, interesting thing, you know, oftentimes when we think about this song, when we sing this song, we kind of get the idea of being on the hillside. Maybe with the shepherds and the beckoning that we feel, but really the angels didn't beckon the shepherds to go. It was the shepherds that said, "Come let us go, even unto Bethlehem and see this thing, which the Lord has made known unto us." You know, but the idea that we kind of get that picture in our mind as we sing the song of the Bethlehem, Jesus being born there and being invited to go and worship Him. We maybe even think of the wise men that came. But anyhow, the invitation is to us today still, you know, we're not in the first century, we're not in Bethlehem. But the invitation is not to literal Bethlehem, not to the birthplace of Christ but the idea of, what did Christ come for again? You know, and really when you take the time to sit down and look at good hymns of the faith, if you would. Whether it's a Christmas hymn like this is, getting you in the holiday spirit, whether it's like some of the other ones that we've talked about, you see the plan of salvation laid out. You see the truth of God's word intermingled throughout the whole hymn and that's where you see where the power of these hymns come from. Is the fact that they do have rich doctrine in them, they do have the word of God interwound in throughout the stanzas and the choruses of the song. And so that's where they get their validity, if you would. But just this invitation, not just for them, not just for those shepherds, not just for the people at that time, but it's true to us today. The idea of, come, let us adore Him, let us worship Him as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Mike Clement
In most hymn books, in many hymn books I should say, in the very beginning there's sort of a, like a table of contents. And you can find, "Okay, here are where the Christmas hymns are located, here's where the Easter hymns are located, here's where the patriotic hymns are located." They're usually bunched up like that. And in many, in the very beginning, here are the worship hymns. And that actually tends to be a small section of most hymn books. Most hymns and I'm talking about older hymns too, most hymns are testimonial, and there's nothing wrong with a testimonial hymn. The one that we looked at before is testimony, "Years I spent in vanity and probably caring not my Lord was crucified, knowing not it was for me He died on Calvary." A testimonial hymn is talking about my relationship to the Lord, but a worship hymn is Him. It's Him, it's me worshiping Him. I've been in some services, not in our church or your church, but I've been in some services where they have a praise and worship time. And frankly, the first time I saw that, it was like, "Okay, we're all gonna stand up and we're gonna praise and worship the Lord." And so for 10 minutes everybody stood and sang, and then praise and worship time was over, "Now, we're gonna do something else." And that bothered me, the whole service should be worship, the whole service should be praise. In fact, when I came home, the next bulletin I did, I redid the whole thing. Praise, worship in song, worship in reading scripture, worship in taking the offering, worship in testimonies, you know, the whole thing. And it's true, kind of had a bur under my side, but the whole idea of, let's adore Him. Somebody commented once on prayer, that many people's prayers sound like a McDonald's prayer, with a gimme gimme here and a gimme there.
Michael Gleb
Almost rhythmical in a sense too. It's like, yeah, it's exactly right.
Mike Clement
In fact, many of us have spent not nearly enough time just worshiping God in prayer. There've been times when I've gone to prayer and said out loud, "Lord, I don't need to learn anything, I'm not here to learn anything, I'm not here to get anything, I just want to be close to you." In the course of this, "Oh, come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him, Christ the Lord." Now there's a great big sidetrack path down there that is beckoning, and I'm not gonna go down too far. But there has been some reaction to the Lordship of the Lord, Jesus Christ. There was a book that was written a number of years ago, and out of reaction to that book came the concept of Lordship salvation. Which says, "When you come to Christ, if you're not sincere and give Him everything, then you're really not saved." And I understand that, that actually is a reaction to the book, which the book did not teach. What I find in scripture is, saving faith also produces other things. Saving faith produces repentance, saving faith produces submission, saving faith produces a desire to please the Lord. And I think that's what scripture--
Michael Gleb
Sanctification, yeah.
Mike Clement
Yeah, and I think that's what scripture means when it says, "Any man be in Christ is a new creature." All things are passed away, all things have become new, but here is this encouragement to come and just adore Him. I love the preaching of the word and I enjoy preparing messages and getting ready to open up God's word and share it with the people. But we have had some times when we've had just an unusual testimony time in the church. I mean, people are sharing how God has touched their heart and used them. And not just prayer requests, but I'd be sitting on the platform with my notes and I'm starting to scratch stuff off, cause there's not gonna be enough time for this and not enough time for that. And there actually was a couple of times when I just folded my notes and let it go.
Michael Gleb
That's good.
Mike Clement
The worship atmosphere was so rich that I just didn't feel comfortable.
Michael Gleb
Yeah, Can I add to that?
Mike Clement
Sure. Yeah, go ahead.
Michael Gleb
You know, at the very beginning we talked about, you know, not a created being and then it comes in, "Oh come let us adore Him, oh come let us adore Him." The scriptures tells us, "They, that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. So, you know, there's a lot of worship, so-called, that really is not worship, you know. And right type of worship, because there's not the truth that backs it up, you know? And there's a doctrine of Jesus Christ, there's a doctrine of the word of God, and they, that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. So these things are beautiful. There is a time that it can connect to our emotions and connect to our spirit, but it has to be based in truth.