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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Kiley Callaway, John Mulholland and Jon Simpson.
Jon Simpson
And we are gonna take on the topic, since it's Christmas time and near Christmas, we thought it'd be appropriate to look at some of the messianic prophecies from the Old Testament specifically about Jesus. And so we're going to look at a couple of different passages from the book of Isaiah. And the first passage is found in Isaiah chapter 42, and it's the first four verses, so I just want to read those as we get started here. Isaiah 42:1-4 goes this way, "Look at my servant whom I strengthened. He is my chosen one who pleases me. I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring justice to the nations. He will not shout or raise his voice in public. He will not crush the weakest reed or put out a flickering candle. He will bring justice to all who have been wronged. He will not falter or lose heart until justice prevails throughout the Earth."
John Mulholland
I have one more little section there, does yours have it? "Even distant lands beyond the sea, will wait for his instruction."
Jon Simpson
Oh, I do it's on the next page. Thank you for catching that.
John Mulholland
I was like, "What Bible are you reading?"
Jon Simpson
It's the Bible that cuts out part of it. Right, so what is the main theme that you guys see here in this particular prophecy about the Messiah?
John Mulholland
Justice, He's going to bring justice.
Jon Simpson
Yeah, so as we think about the topic of justice, how does that connect today? What kind of justice does he, do you think is being referred to?
John Mulholland
So the people are in exile and he's giving them a future hope. He's telling them that whomever, you know, this person, this Messiah, whoever this person is that's going to come is going to bring justice. So in their minds, they would think that He's going to deliver them from their exile. So short term, I think we could be thinking about how we would translate that to us. We hear things like this and maybe our default switch then too is short-term. Like I'm thinking of maybe how something's going to be restored in my life today or whatever. I think that's the short answer to your question. I'm like, how do we apply that? I think we think short and think we're going to experience these promises today. Just like they thought they were going to experience those promises.
Jon Simpson
And justice, I mean, the kind of understanding of what justice is, is to make things right. Would you agree with that simple definition? So the Messiah is going to come to make things right. And yeah, because they're in the time of suffering in Babylon, then they are looking for an immediate release to that. And for things to be made, right for them as a nation.
Kylie Calloway
They always thought He was coming to make things right. But not in the way that He meant.
Jon Simpson
Yeah. So they're looking for a savior to get them out of the persecution they're under, to make things right.
Kylie Calloway
Looking for something tangible, wouldn't you say? Something that's like a kingdom that He was going to set up.
Jon Simpson
Yes, yes. And interestingly enough, they're looking for that in Isaiah's time. And they're also, the nation of Israel was looking for that when Jesus came.
Kylie Calloway
Looking for something external, something they can see or touch.
John Mulholland
Well, and even in the first chapter of Acts before Jesus, you know, ascends, the question the disciples ask is, "Are you now going to bring your kingdom to the Earth? You came, we saw all these miracles, you died your back." What I say, when we talk about this at Westway is, "Like they had their, Make Israel Great Again, hats on. They're ready to-
Kylie Calloway
Build Back Better.
John Mulholland
Yes, yes, exactly. We're here, you're ready to do this, and I think that's what these people are looking for. So I would argue, because that cycle has existed since this time, as evidenced by the situations that we just talked about. We have that same mindset, like, we're ready for immediate relief.
Kylie Calloway
We're ready for the king to get the kingdom ready to go.
Jon Simpson
We're ready for things to be made right, and we can tell when things aren't right. And certainly the world is filled with people with different viewpoints on what is right and wrong. We live in a world that's diverse and people's view, you know, we talk about this. I talk about this often with people and the awareness that the battle we're in, in our country and in our world is a spiritual battle. And it always has been. And it's a war between, you know, what the nation of Israel stood for in a sense was to represent God in the world, reflect the character of God, the behaviors of God. And so today, I'm not going to wade into the position of Israel, but the church is meant to reflect that today. God's people, Christians, are meant to be a reflection of Him, but we're looking for justice to happen in our day-to-day life in the world we live in. And there's the constant influence of evil and the presence of evil is there, and we get to experience that and it hurts and we get wronged. I think you were saying before we started recording that, "Why are good people suffering?" So how does the justice, the Messiah is going to bring, play into that? Does it affect or touch our day-to-day life?
Kylie Calloway
Well, yeah, I mean, for me, I think it's that big Christian word, the justification. Though, they were looking for an external, a tangible, a touchable kingdom. You know, it's something deeper inside of us. You know, you said "To be made right." I don't think we're made right, I think we're declared right. According to the theological term justification. So there's nothing that we can do to make ourselves right. There's no amount of works to make ourselves right. It's just faith and that He came, that He died on the cross, and then because of the blood of Jesus Christ, He declares us righteous. And that's, to me the justice that I received, from the injustice of the sin nature that is upon me. That when He looks at me, He declares me right, or righteous.
John Mulholland
And I liked the way you described, like it's not simply an external thing that God is after, that Jesus is after, there's something else. And we can have all of those external things fixed, but there's still something wrong, and that thing that's wrong is me. And as we've gone through the book of Judges, like no matter how many times God sends a judge to deliver them from whatever situation they're in because of their own sin, and I know we're going to talk about that a little later in another session. But the fix is not the external thing, the fix is not, "I need food or I need this." I mean, it's not that those things are wrong to want, but that's not the thing, necessarily that Jesus is ultimately after. So this justice is not only an external thing, but that's the justification that you're talking about. It's what Jesus does to me, to my heart, so that when He sees me, He sees me through the lens of Jesus.
Kylie Calloway
I believe there is an external coming in the end times and new Heaven and the Earth being set up. I think that's where we have to live by faith and not by sight of what's going on and trust God, that ultimately He will bring the justice that we think of in America. That He will bring that to evil and those crazy things that happen to good people. I believe that time is coming, and I believe for this passage, is that's to me, is what he was talking about. That there is a justice coming, they just didn't realize it was Him dying on the cross for their sins.
Jon Simpson
Yeah, when it says, "He will bring justice to the nations," you know, He's not going to crush the weakest reed He's going to come with a sensitivity. He's not going to yell and shout, you know, He's coming with peace, which Jesus did come to bring peace to the world. And the peace was in the, specifically the Jewish nation in Jesus' time, when He came to the Earth, was looking for, you know, they were looking to get out from underneath the oppression of Rome. And they wanted peace as a country and the freedom to do their own thing and to control their own destiny. And they weren't able to do that. and so they were looking for, like we've said, a tangible, a real king that would establish a kingdom, or He would set things right for the nation. But the justice that Jesus really came to bring, as you said, was the, to justify us and to help make it so that we can be made right. And our sins, as you said, can be forgiven and the relationship between the human race and God can be restored.
Kylie Calloway
Right, and I think, for justice to happen, there has to be an ultimate judge, which God is. And I think that's why the Bible says, "There's no longer any condemnation and those that are in Christ Jesus." Because in the court of law, when I stand before Him, since I've been declared righteous by Him. Then I'm no longer condemned before Him, and that's the justice that I get to receive now.
Jon Simpson
And how powerful is that to be able to walk in a right relationship with God in the midst of injustice, that's going to happen to me in my daily life. I'm going to be treated wrongly by the people around me, the world systems against me, the enemies against me, and people are sinful and I'm sinful. I'm not going like, "Walking in this perfect world where nothing happens that's offensive or hurtful," is probably not going to happen. And I'm going to experience injustice in my tangible, real life. So how powerful is being justified before God, and to walk in that, does it have a relation to my day-to-day life? Or I get to experience the goodness of God in the midst of a sinful world, is there a connection there?
John Mulholland
Yeah, and I think that was you before, you know, you mentioned Micah 6:8, "No oh people, the Lord has told you what's good, He's told you what's required of you. Do what's right, love mercy, walk humbly with your God." We had a conversation in one of our small groups recently. You know, we look at the world and we see so much that's wrong with it, and we want justice, people want justice. This is a popular topic, people want justice. And as much as we want to see justice on that macro scale, which is going to come only through Christ, I think as Christians our responsibility is to bring and demonstrate and manifest what justice looks like in my own life. So if I see something I don't like, the fix is not, the fix may be addressing that thing, but the fix is addressing what's wrong in my heart that causes me to judge that thing that I don't like. Like, rather than being mad at someone or I'm frustrated with somebody because they're acting like a sinner, because they are, if it's somebody that's outside of Christ, why would we expect someone who's not a Christian to act like a Christian? I think the micro piece, the day-to-day for me is, to remember that I have been justified by Christ. Christ is doing a work in me and my responsibility is to manifest that justice to other people. To demonstrate the same justice that God did to those other people, which is recognize, you know, I hear, "Somebody oughta pay for that." Or there's a bad thing that happens, "Somebody's got to pay for that, that needs to be made right. And in the back of my mind, I just want to shout, "Somebody did pay for that, His name is Jesus." And how fantastically glorious is that reality?
Kylie Calloway
So we've received this, being declared right, by how? By faith in God's grace, because there what you're saying is, "We need to show more grace to these injustices and things that are happening to us." Which would then be the image of the father.
John Mulholland
Right, taking on, and so then we, this may be a little controversial, so then we don't shout. We don't raise our voice in public, we don't do the things that frankly, so many of the three of us see so much on social media. People in each one of our churches and other churches in town raising up this clamor, which is clearly not an accurate representation of who God is and what He would have us do.
Jon Simpson
Yeah, because we've been justified, made right freely by His grace, we don't have to force justice to happen in every situation. It's one of the things that is maybe not, maybe it's a little counter-intuitive, although Jesus lays it out clearly. The justice movement of our day does not offer forgiveness, nor show any grace, nor exemplify mercy. It's about punishment, it's about paying for things and if that's the world we're going to live in, we're going backwards. Because Jesus has offered us a way out of that, into a path of peace, where it's possible for us to have peace with each other, because we've been made right. Our sins have been you know.
John Mulholland
So when you show who you are, you'll know what to do.