Colby Houchin
So, we've been asked this question before and we're going to answer it, or respond to it in this format. So, we were asked the question, "did God create the world in a literal six days?" That was the way that we were asked. So Art, I'm curious about what you want to say.
Art Devos
Yeah, no, absolutely. This is a question that I used to sit in the camp of. "It really doesn't matter, because it's not a salvation issue, if I'm being honest." That was the camp I sat in. I said, "if you want to believe that God used evolution, so be it, as long as you believe God created it and it's not a salvation issue." So that's where I used to sit. And then I actually started studying the Book of Genesis more. I started to understand how that was actually a very flawed way of my thinking. Because, if I could think that about this, I could also think that about other parts of scripture. And that's why I love how you started this out. About this kind of being, the theme of this podcast is, what is your view of scripture? How do you hold it? Because if we don't hold it in a high esteem, if we don't look at it as, this is all God's word, then it's very easy to take a passage like Genesis 1 and it's very easy to turn it around and say, "it's just poetry or it was just," and you could add in whatever you wanted to. You could try to then say, "well, God created it and then let evolution take place over the next couple of millions of years and do that." But there's problems with that way of thinking, because if you want to say that there were millions of years after God created the world, and in between these days, there's a lot of issues with that because evolution is also based on the premise of destruction and death. So that would mean that all had to come before Genesis 3. But you're trying to say that it came before man, but otherwise that would say that then something's wrong in the Bible. Also, when you study the Hebrew and in these passages, and it's, Ken Ham has some great resources on this and there's one in particular that I'll make sure to share. I can't think of it off the top of my head what it's called.
Colby Houchin
Put a link, maybe, in the YouTube notes.
Art Devos
Yeah, I'll make sure that's all on our website as well and with this video. Because he explains it incredibly well. And he's absolutely right, that it's kind of odd that biblical scholars will universally agree throughout all of scripture that when the Hebrew word "Yom" is used, that it represents a 24 hour day. And they agree all the way through the rest of the Old Testament, whenever that word is used for the word 'day,' that's a literal 24 hour day. But then they argue that it can't be in Genesis 1, that there are those that argue that it can be. Well, that's kind of fascinating in and of itself. But then, you go a little bit deeper, anytime that there is a number associated with a day, it always means a literal 24 hour day all through the rest of the scripture. But then people still try to argue that here in Genesis 1:1, it isn't. And then to go even a step further, he also says that there was morning, there was evening. And anytime that that statement is made, it talks about a literal 24 hour day, all throughout the rest of scripture. And Bible scholars agree to this...until it comes to Genesis 1:1. Then there's suddenly all this argument. But yet, it's like God is saying, "I'm going to make sure they understand." There was evening and there was morning, the second day. There was evening and there was morning, the third day. There was evening and morning, the fourth day. And so you start to get into that, and when you really start to look at it, it's like, "okay, I think it's a literal 24 hour day. I think that's what God is trying to get across to me." And oh, by the way, God can do that. Like I said, I really have changed my stance. And I believe to give God His ultimate sovereignty and His all ultimate authority of scripture. And when it goes through Genesis 1 and you see the statement, God said, "and it was so." Then I believe it to be true. So that's where I start on it. That's where I want to start.
Colby Houchin
So I think we talked about this beforehand, just because it's a really important question to be like, "Hey, how are we going to approach this?" We could probably go for about three more hours on this topic, because there's a lot of implications for what Art just said. And there's also a lot of counter arguments that people will throw back in this. And so I wanted to throw it back over to you, Adam, because you had a really interesting perspective or that came up when Art was talking that came to my mind. It's almost a question to ask, and I think it's going to set you up well. A question to ask on this is, what comes first in your mind? Does what you heard in 10th grade biology class come first or does scripture come first? Because what often happens is, people will go, "well, I'm reading Genesis and it says this, but I've heard all of these different things. And because I've heard all these different things, I've got to figure out, what holes do I shove scripture into and anything that I don't like is just not going to be shoved in there. I'm just going to push that aside. I think one temptation that we have is to take things and to flip the hierarchy away. And so, I'm saying this poorly. Scripture is meant to be authoritative. And so, we switch that in our minds. We have a temptation to switch that in our minds where we say, "well, it is authoritative, but not as authoritative as what I read in this one textbook." And so that relationship is kind of important. But what were you going to say? We talked about this at the beginning.
Adam Sanders
Oh yeah, no, I think what you're saying is, I think it's a good question to ask yourself. Especially if the question is probably coming from a Christian perspective. I think something Colby was getting out there is just the question of, why is it in your mind? Do you immediately default the Bible to the lesser authority position that must prove itself while elevating your scientific textbook to the higher authority that demands an answer?
Colby Houchin
Thank you for being smarter than me in your wording.
Adam Sanders
But yeah, and it's a fantastic question. It's something that probably needs to come from us, and starting from a heart issue. And we were talking about earlier, something I found a lot of times is that there is maybe a weakness in another area that kind of gives way for that line of thinking. To where we are maybe unknowingly or knowingly pursuing worldly things. And so as a result of that, we were growing affection for worldly things. And maybe that is causing us to elevate worldly wisdom above godly wisdom as a default position, whether we recognize that we're doing it or not. And I think, so it's a good opportunity to have a heart diagnostic under those circumstances for sure. Part of me goes back to the thought too, kind of what angle are you asking this question from? Is it a personal question or is it something you get asked from a lot of people? I feel a little bit like Art, a little bit like a fire hydrant that's trying to maybe just give a trickle right now and not just kind of let the floodgates open up. One thing I think we've talked about on here before, but something I think bears repeating is that, the world is really not truly broken down into these kind of separate binary categories. Where we have science here, and we have religion here in almost all of these areas. I think the more you study scientific inquiry, and especially a lot of theories like evolution and the age of the earth, and you really are leaving the realm of science. I know we said that before, but it bears repeating over and over again. You're getting into philosophical questions as soon as you start to try to ask things like, "where did the world come from? Why is it here? Why is there purpose?" I think we give a little too much credit to the secular perspective without asking the same degree or even a higher degree of probing and hard questions back towards that.
Colby Houchin
Yeah, I think a way to say that is, the enlightenment is this time period where just thinking through really hard things became very popular. There's a million and one good things that came from that, but there was also a lot of negative things. Where we became very critical as a just human people group. We became incredibly critical of all kinds of things and it ended up leading to a lot of people saying, "Hey, you know what?" Going back to our first question, "maybe marriage isn't that important. Maybe it's okay if I just, maybe a monogamy is not important. So, I could be married, but I can also have people on the side that I sleep with. Or maybe this rigid fundamentalist structure of loving your children and raising them as a husband and wife; maybe that's arbitrary and old and we can throw that out." A lot of these movements are birthed out of a very similar time period, a similar university movement. And when you look at church history, and just history in general, you see a lot of correlations to where a lot of these different societal things changed. And that's also where a big push of questioning scripture, and like you said, questioning scripture where you don't have the same scrutiny of what is said by the scientists. That causes some issues. Did you have anything else you wanted to say before I kind of switch it up a little bit?
Adam Sanders
No, I just think, like I said, I'm kind of trying to refrain maybe from just diving headfirst in. I definitely don't ever want to promote a sense of anti-intellectualism, or causing you to always be very harshly, overly skeptical of all authority figures or that kind of thing. I think there's too much of that in our culture today. I will say, a lot of the ideas that affect the Western world today are born out of, like what Colby was saying, an era and a time where there was a desire first and foremost like, "Hey, we don't want Christianity. How do we get rid of it? Oh, Charles Darwin went to this island and he found these bird beaks. Maybe this is how all of life came about. Oh, Karl Marx has come up with this new system of government in which we don't need to have a higher authority power to tell us how to do things. We can do it on our own through rationale and reasoning." Mind you, when I say this, all of these things have been terribly bad for human beings. The record proves.
Art Devos
Adam, what did you go to school for originally?
Adam Sanders
To be a science teacher.
