How Do We Deal With Temptation In The World?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Tim Hebbert and Brad Kilthau.

Tim Hebbert
Today, the question is, "I think we can all agree that the temptation to sin against God are numerous and in our society there is an overwhelming amount of media, entertainment and suggestive advertisements to lure us into sin. How do we deal with this as believers?" And I'm first of all thinking of that concept that we live, that we're in the world, but we're not of the world. And unless we're living in a plastic bubble, or we've segregated ourselves from society, the reality of it is we're going to be looking face to face into the eyes of temptation, of the allure of sin. And the devil is really good about making it look tenderizing and beautiful. When actually what it is, is it's dark and it's destructive. So I want to talk about a couple things that I always think about with this. And then Brad's going to bring some scripture to underscore a lot of that. But I want to tell you out there today, if you're feeling the temptation of certain sins, the best thing that you can do is run in the other direction. I sometimes think we forget what the word 'repent' really means. It doesn't mean, "say you're sorry." It means, "take another course, move the direction of your life." It's better to avoid the things that are going to tempt you than to think for a second that you can face up to those things over and over and over again and beat the temptation. Because what happens is we begin to obsess about sin and it's one of the great blessings I have. My wife tells me that I don't overthink anything, Brad. So I don't focus on that as much. I really want to focus on my relationship with Jesus Christ. But there are times everybody is tempted. I think that we have bought in, in some Christian circles to this thought that God tests us, but He never puts temptation in front of us. But have you heard that one, Brad? People think that God is putting that temptation in front of you. He is absolutely not ever going to do that to you. Why would he do that? Does he allow us to become tested in our life over things? Yes, but one of the ways to pass a test of temptation is to move completely away from it. I heard Pastor John Maxwell read this at a Promise Keeper event. Brad, this has been like 28 years ago.

Brad Kilthau
Yeah, it's been a while since those happened.

Tim Hebbert
And it stuck with me ever since. And he was speaking that day and in a conference for men about the allure of sexual immorality and adultery and the temptation of those things. And he read this poem, and it was written by a woman by the name of Portia Nelson. I guess it's a poem. It's entitled, There's a Hole in My Sidewalk. And it goes like this, chapter 1, "I walk down the street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk, and I fall in. I'm lost. I'm helpless. It isn't my fault. It takes forever to find a way out." Chapter 2, or we could say Day 2. Day two, I walk down the same street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk. I pretend I don't see it, I fall in again. I can't believe I'm in the same place, but it isn't my fault. It still takes a long time to get out." Day 3, "I walk down the same street, there is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I see it, it's there. I still fall in it. It's a habit. Now my eyes are open. I know where I am. It's my fault. I get out immediately." Day 4, "I walk down the same street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk. I walk around it." Day 5, "I walked down another street." Seems like we ought to learn to take day five and move it up right behind day one. If you're out there today and you're struggling with some sin in your life, I don't know what it is. And sometimes when we're talking about sin, we tend to look at the big sins and ignore the small ones that are actually as destructive as the big ones. But if you're struggling with temptation in this media, sexualized, me first, consumer oriented world we live in, if you're struggling with those things, God's saying, "walk down a different street." And that street, I heard it's a modern telling that somebody wrote of the 23rd Psalm. When it talks about "He leads me in the path of righteousness." The righteousness that He's leading you and I down today friends, is the footsteps of His son Jesus. And when we keep our eyes focused on who Jesus is, what he's done for us, what he wants to continue to do with us, and we keep our eyes focused there, all of a sudden all the allure of the things of this world are in the side mirror. They're not in the front view of where we're at. But when we obsess on those things, it's easy to begin to look on those things. I say, once we examine and see what we're struggling with, it's time to trust God's plan for us. Look to Jesus and move in a different direction.

Brad Kilthau
That's exactly right, Tim. We are to look to Jesus, and to look to Jesus means getting into his word. And we can see that the Lord speaks to us so clearly about this issue and struggle that all of us deal with temptation. Temptation to be led into sin. And one of the passages is, looking at Luke 4:1-13, of that time of when Jesus was in the wilderness and Satan was tempting him. Now, of course we need to know that not all temptation comes from Satan. We can't give him all the credit. Sometimes it just comes from our flesh itself. But we need to recognize the arsenal, the tools of Satan. And in doing so, that'll help us to stand strong against temptation. When we look at that very familiar account, Satan tempted Jesus in three temptations. First of all, he was saying, "well turn that stone into bread." The next time it was, "all the kingdoms of the world can be yours if you just bow down and worship me." And then finally taking him to the top of the pinnacle of the temple and saying, "jump off of this," this 450 drop that you would have. "But the angels are going to catch you up and preserve you and save you." So when we look at those three temptations, we learn some good things again. And that is, first of all, that Satan has three general categories of temptation. The first one is, he tempts us to start to think that the father doesn't love us. That's why he was saying about the stone being turned into bread. He was saying, "Jesus, oh, you're out here in the wilderness. You haven't eaten for 40 days. What kind of father do you have that hasn't provided food for you?" And so that's where that temptation thought comes from. Second of all, he says to just worship me and then all of these kingdoms of the world will be yours. Well, what's he saying? He's saying, "well, don't trust in the plan of the Father. In fact, you don't have to go His way, You don't have to do His plan. Here's a shortcut, just worship me. You don't have to go the way of the cross." And then finally, he has another category, and that is he wants us to doubt the protection of the father. And we can see that in every temptation that he brings against us. You see, Satan is, he's tactical. And we need to learn that, because what Satan will do often is he will attack us after we've experienced a great time of blessing. We find that again in Luke 4, because when you look back in Luke 3, Jesus as we know, was just baptized in the Jordan River. And remember what happened as he came up out of the water? The Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove. And the Father spoke from heaven and said, "This is my son in whom I am well pleased, my beloved son." I mean, what a beautiful blessed experience. And then, the next thing that happens is Jesus finds himself in this place of temptation by Satan. That's the tactic of Satan. When there's a blessing or something good that happens in our life, he immediately is there to lead us into sin. Whenever God moves, Satan moves. We also need to know that Satan comes after us when we are vulnerable. Sometimes when we're struggling with an illness in our life, maybe the loss of a loved one, maybe financial woes or whatever. He's watching us, and he knows that when we are in those positions of vulnerability, he recognizes that. And that's when he comes and starts whispering false things and temptations into our ears. And then also you got to know that Satan's very practical. I think we see that in verses 5-6 especially. Satan is logical. Again, telling Jesus, "just take a shortcut. You don't have to do this the hard way. You don't have to go the way of the cross." He's a great theologian. He knows the Bible probably better than any of us. And some people have a hard time believing that. But you got to remember Satan, he graduated from the greatest seminary of all, from heaven, even though he doesn't live by the word of God. But he knows it. And he tries to come down to us and use this logic and practical thinking to lead us astray. And we've got to recognize those things. We've got to recognize that when we're going into those areas, when we see these things happening in our lives, that that's Satan. And we need to call upon the Lord. We need to get close to the Lord. We need to abide in the Lord. We need to study His word. We need to know what the word really says so that Satan is not manipulating the word of God and leading us astray. And here's another thing we need to do as Christians: we need to start standing our ground and quit cowering to the messages of the world that Satan is putting out there. Quit cowering to the immorality of our world. Quit cowering to being afraid that if we speak up for Christ and speak the truth that we're going to be mocked. We've got to keep in mind that greater is He who is living within us as believers than he who is in the world. And we need to stand against the woes of Satan.

Tim Hebbert
As you're talking about that, Brad, it took me right back to the beginning of Genesis. Adam and Eve in the garden, and Satan comes with a voice of reason. "Did God say that you can't eat these things? No, no, no, no." And then they begin to correct him. "Oh, that's not what He meant. He just doesn't want you to be like Him." And he challenges them. He tries it with Jesus, and he gets the beat down. I refer to him in my sermons a lot as 'the coward,' because he doesn't ever come at us when we're strong and empowered, feeling strong in who we are. He waits till there's a weak, vulnerable moment. And that's where he attacks from.

Brad Kilthau
That's right.

Tim Hebbert
But we have the confidence and hope in Jesus that he's conquered him already. And we don't have to listen.

Brad Kilthau
And to even add to our thoughts here, Tim. I think when you look at that passage and you get to verse 13, it says, "Now, when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from Jesus until an opportune time." I think one thing we want to finish up by sharing with our listeners, is that temptation is seasonal. We might have victory over him in one temptation. We might have success and we've got through it. But Satan will be back. He's relentless, just like he came back at Jesus towards the end, as we watched as he's going to the cross. There's Satan working in those scenes behind. And he is relentless. He will continue to come back. He's not going to look at us like, "oh, you're a strong Christian and you know the Bible really well. I'm going to leave you alone." No, he'll just go back and change his tactics, and he'll watch for another place to get us. And he will be back. So anyway, this is something I think when we look at temptation like this, just as you were saying earlier, Tim, with these things that every one of us deal with. We can't escape this, so we need to learn how to deal with it. How to walk in the way that the Lord tells us through those times of temptation.

Tim Hebbert
I think the thing to remind ourselves too, if we falter, don't be like Adam and Eve even hide in the bushes. Bring it to the Lord. He doesn't want us to live in the prison of something that we've done wrong.

Brad Kilthau
That's right. 1 John 1:9, "confess that sin. He is faithful in the small and righteous."

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? What Are We Fighting For?

Rora - The winds from the valley known as Pelice carried an ominous tale of sorrow and destruction. The army of black-robed Inquisitors had laid siege to the defenseless inhabitants of the valley, burning villages, destroying churches, and killing those who refused to renounce their faith. Yet high on a granite mountain above the land that forms the border between Italy and France stood Joshua Gianavel—one man who held the fate of a nation in his hands. He would not allow the same desolation to reach his home and people in the valley of Rora without a fight. With lionlike courage and a small band of farmers and peasants, he would wage warfare against Europe’s mightiest army with a brilliance the world has never seen. Based upon the true story of the historic stand of the Waldenses in 1655, Rora is a spellbinding tale of a legendary hero, of international intrigue and subterfuge, of cloak-and-dagger tactics, and of a faith that refused to die. 

The Alabaster Cross -  Trapped in a world of anger, 29-year-old Bryan Whittaker cannot move on with his life until he takes a journey into his past…a dangerous journey that will lead him into the heart of the Amazon RainForest. Instead of the revenge he seeks, Bryan finds Diana and through her love he is able to make peace with his past and find redemption. A deeply human story about the complexities of love between a man and a woman, parents and children, a brother and a sister, and ultimately the transforming power of divine love. If you’ve ever struggled to restore a broken relationship you will identify with Bryan’s journey as he strives to make peace with his past.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? World War II Fiction

The Winter Rose - Grace Tonquin is an American Quaker who works tirelessly in Vichy France to rescue Jewish children from the Nazis. After crossing the treacherous Pyrenees, Grace returns home to Oregon with a brother and sister who lost their parents during the war. Though Grace and her husband love Elias and Marguerite as their own, echoes of Grace’s past and trauma from the Holocaust tear the fragile new family apart. More than fifty years after they disappear, Addie Hoult arrives at Tonquin Lake, hoping to find the Tonquin family. For Addie, the mystery of what happened to them is a matter of life and death for her beloved mentor Charlie, who is battling a genetic disease. Though Charlie refuses to discuss his ties to the elusive Tonquins, piecing together their story is the only way to save his life—and potentially mend the wounds from his broken past. 

Fun Facts About The Winter Rose - The author, Melanie Dobson, came up with the idea for this WWII novel in the midst of the 2020 pandemic when she had heard about the American and British Quakers in France who helped Jewish children during World War II. According to Dobson, “The Winter Rose is not meant to be a reflection of modern-day Quakerism but a historical account of one woman who devoted her life to Christ and caring for His children. It is also a tribute to the men and women who sacrificed their lives to transport kids of all ages over the Pyrenees. 

The Forgotten Names - Five years after the highly publicized trial of Klaus Barbie, the "Butcher of Lyon," law student Valérie Portheret began her doctoral research into the 108 children who disappeared from Vénissieux fifty years earlier, children who somehow managed to escape deportation and certain death in the German concentration camps. She soon discovers that their rescue was no unexplainable miracle. It was the result of a coordinated effort by clergy, civilians, the French Resistance, and members of other humanitarian organizations who risked their lives as part of a committee dedicated to saving those most vulnerable innocents.

Theirs was a heroic act without precedent in Nazi-occupied Europe, made possible due to a loophole in the Nazi agenda to deport all Jewish immigrants from the country: a legally recognized exemption for unaccompanied minors. Therefore, to save their children, the Jewish mothers of Vénissieux were asked to make the ultimate sacrifice of abandoning them forever. Told in dual timelines, The Forgotten Names is a reimagined account of the true stories of the French men and women who have since been named Righteous Among the Nations, the children they rescued, the stifled cries of shattered mothers, and a law student, whose twenty-five-year journey allowed those children to reclaim their heritage and remember their forgotten names.

 Fun Facts About The Forgotten Names - Spanish author, Mario Escobar, first learned about Valerie Portheret and her work from a French newspaper, discovering how her story has moved French society. Through that, Mario Escobar wrote The Forgotten Names. In the Clarifications From History section of his book, Escobar shares something incredible:

“It is true that Valerie dedicated herself to identifying the names of the 108 children and locating them personally. Thus began a journey that lasted more than twenty-five years, a journey to return to those children their original identities and to listen to their stories. By 1994 she had identified the names of 93 of the 108 children from a list found in the archives of the Alliance Israelite Universelle, a French organization. In 2003 she uncovered eighty-two of the waivers from the Venissieux camp in which parents signed away their parental rights and entrusted their children to members of Amitie Chretienne. Among the children on the list of those rescued from Venissieux was a girl named Eva Stein. Eva was one of the last children Valerie found, and not until 2018. Altogether, Valerie has identified the names of all 108, has reconstructed the stories of 90 of the children, and has personally met with as many as of the children and the rescue workers as possible.”

My Thoughts - World War II novels are quite possibly my favorite sub-genre in our library, and here’s why: There was so much pain and devastation that came from that time. The concentration camps, the Blitz, countries and families falling apart. It would have been so easy to lose hope in the midst of all that pain and suffering. But as many authors and researchers have found, hope wasn’t lost. Like the people that these two books are based on, there were courageous heroes who helped where they could and never lost faith. And that ‘s why I love World War II books. They remind us that no matter how dark things get, there’s always a light.

Why Is Marrying Someone Who Is Not A Christian A Big Deal?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Camp Pastors Adam Sanders, Colby Houchin, and Art Devos.

Art Devos
So, let's kick it off right away. "Why is marrying a non-Christian such a big deal to some people?" And that's a question, I think, that gets asked a lot.

Colby Houchin
Yeah, I always like the wording of our questions. And so I look at this one and I'm like, I try to get into the mind of whoever out there asked it. You know, this could be a very innocent question of, "why is it that people care about this?" And this also could be almost like a hostile question of, "why is it that it's such a big deal to some people? Like my mom and everybody else in my life." And I don't know who you are, but I don't know what mentality you have going into this question, but I think I can confidently say, and I'm going to assume that you guys agree, that I'm one of those people that would say, it's a big deal. I'm assuming you guys would agree, right?

Art Devos
Yes, absolutely.

Colby Houchin
It's a really big deal. And I think we need to start this conversation of, why is it such a big deal if Christians marry non-Christians? Or, why is it a big deal that we affirm Christian and Christian marriages, not interfaith marriages? I think we have to ask, what is marriage? That's the first question. And this is sprinkled throughout the scriptures. We see this in Genesis, too. We see this throughout the Old Testament. We see this in the mouth of Jesus. We see this in the teachings of Paul. We see this all over the scripture. But marriage is the union of a man and a woman for life. It is considered a one flesh union. And I think something that we have to highlight, looking at Matthew 17, the words of Jesus. It is what God brings together. This isn't something that we choose to do. Obviously, we have a choice, right? All three of us here are married. We all made a decision, we all asked a question. We all went through that awkward, terrifying moment of going down on one knee and then the shakes of asking a woman to marry us. And then turned around and potentially teared up on the altar as our wife walked down the aisle. We all chose those things, but at the same time, all we did is say some words and put a ring on our finger. God was actually the one that instituted this beautiful covenant at the end of the day. And so, just a theme of this episode, I think, is going to be kind of defining how serious are we going to look at God's word? How serious are we going to look at the things of the Lord? And are we going to take those things seriously, or are we going to kind of throw them to the wayside and say that what we think and what we feel is more important? And I think that as you listen to this episode, you're going to go, "oh yeah, that is kind of a theme for today." So just to start, marriage is something God created. And so we have to start there. I'm curious what you guys want to say.

Adam Sanders
Yeah, definitely. I like the way you used the word covenant there, and I think it doesn't exactly catch the imagery of it, but another way to describe that is, it's a contract. And I think a lot of times when we're in our younger mode, we're thinking of relationships through the vantage point of, how does someone make me feel? The friendship, and the fun component of that. And all those things are important. I think a healthy good marriage incorporates a lot of that, and is able to appreciate that part of it too. But when we think about the contractual part of it, it makes you, especially as you get older as an adult, you kind of think whenever you enter into a serious agreement with someone, that has serious ramifications and serious results that come from that. You begin to ask yourself more serious questions about that person's character. The alignment that you have for vision in the future, and in the present. And you start to realize the significance that comes with having that agreement in accord when it comes to how you're going to conduct life moving forward. And you need someone who's on a similar page as you in order to do that well.

Art Devos
All of that is true. And one of the things I think about too is, even take a spouse out of the equation here for a second, alright? Just look at it as a friendship. So the Bible has a lot to say about, who our friends are and what kind of friends we are to keep, right? We can look at the book of Proverbs and the advice that Proverbs gives us about who we should be hanging out with. And it really is about the company that we are keeping. And so we can look at passages, and I just turned to the first one here that I have on my list, 2 Corinthians 6:14. And this one is very much used in the argument for why you don't marry a nonbeliever. But really, it is here in the context as well of your friends. "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?" And we can continue on there, but really your spouse is going to be your best friend, or should be your best friend. They should be your number one in all things. They should be the first person you go to when something goes wrong. They should be the first person you go to when you want to celebrate something. Like, your spouse should be your best friend. That is the company you are going to keep for life, and that company that you keep is going to be your biggest influence on you. And so, that is why when we start talking about the context of marriage and not marrying an unbeliever, it's because that believer is going to have the biggest influence on your faith. Because, what about when you want to go to church and they don't? What about when you want to start attending a Bible study and they don't?

Colby Houchin
What about if you want to support a missionary and the other one wants to buy a bunch of alcohol on the weekend and party? Because it's often a choice one of those two, like those lifestyle decisions that are one or the other.

Art Devos
Right, it means that, well, "I want to live for God," while they want to live for the world. And that's exactly why that question would come out that way. 1 Corinthians 15:33-34 is another one. It says, "do not deceived. Evil company corrupts good habits. Awake to the righteousness and do not sin. For some do not have the knowledge of God." And so you look at that and it's like, we shouldn't keep close company. It doesn't mean, don't go out and interact with unbelievers. In fact, we're supposed to for the sake of telling them who God is and showing them who God is through our lives. But it's not in a marriage context. It's not, my best friends shouldn't be unbelievers. If you're a believer, your best friend shouldn't be. Because again, that's the greatest influence on your life. And so that's where I go with this argument, as far as why it's that important.

Colby Houchin
Yeah. Another area that, I wanted to bring in Genesis 2 really quick. I think that the language is really important, and this is an NLT. It's not a translation I usually use, but I didn't want to drive back to my office on my day off to grab my usual Bible. But Genesis 2:24, it says, "that explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one." And that again, that just highlights everything that Art said, that the seriousness of marriage is a oneness. There's a unity that is required there. And if looking at Ephesians 5, when I preached through Colossians, you get to the end, it's either at the end of three or, I think it's middle of three. And the end of three into four, it talks about the order of the home. I read the Colossians passage, but then I immediately flipped to the Ephesians 5 passage, because it's the same thing but in more detail. But just to highlight a few parts of Ephesians 5, it says, Ephesians 5:21, "and further submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Verse 22, "for wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord." Jumping down to verse 25, then there's a couple more things it says, "husbands, this means love your wives just as Christ loved the church. Now, here's what we don't often talk about in the church, and we need to talk about more, is that the model that Ephesians, that Paul is laying out to the church of Ephesus and laying out to all of his churches. It's not like he taught something different to the Corinthians and taught something different to the Thessalonians. This was the model that the Lord called for him to teach, but it was a subversion of the Roman system. And it still is a subversion of our secular current system of family, where the Roman system said, "the husband is all powerful and everybody else is just subject to whatever he wanted." We see a very broken, pleasure-based, like, just do what's best for you. A, "You go live your best life, whatever makes you happy system today." Both of those are completely shattered by what we see here in Ephesians and other places in the New Testament. And really, what this is calling for is a deep and profound submission to Christ where the head of the household is not the husband. It's Christ. Basically, the imagery I like to use is, I like to think of Christ having his arms wrapped around the family, the biblical family. And when hear this language of wives submitting to your husbands, why is that a good thing? Well, it's only good for wives to submit to a husband in this biblical, godly marriage where this man is living the way he's called to. It goes for nine verses of, what does it mean for a husband to be married and to love his wife? It basically describes Christ loving the church.

Colby Houchin
So okay, women submit to and trust your husband. Husbands, be like Christ to your family. Why is it good to submit? Well, it's the same as us submitting to the Lord. It is God wrapping his arms around the biblical family and saying, "this is I Am at the head. I am the authority figure. I am the person that you're going to turn to." And husband, wife, kids, and everybody we are called to submit to that authority. And that's when marriages work. That's when you go, "oh, I'm not trying to out-compete my spouse, I'm trying to Out-serve my spouse. I'm trying to out-love my spouse. I'm trying to walk in the ways of the Lord with my husband and wife, with my children, building them up." Oh, all of a sudden, family looks really good in that situation. And then you go, okay, throw in a nonbeliever into that context, and it's just not going to work. There is just no way for that model of marriage to work where one submits to the Lord and submits to the other, but the other is not submitting to the ways of the Lord. How can that actually produce the fruit that we're called to produce?

Adam Sanders
Absolutely. Yeah, that was a lot of what I had in mind. Even with that idea of, if the Lord is calling you to this, why would you want to jeopardize that by jumping in with somebody who is not following with the reciprocal value of it. If you're a young lady and you are going to be submitting to someone who is not submitted to Christ, and has no desire to lead your family in godliness, then you have been given an impossible task to submit to something that will only lead to: a stripping of your joy, a stripping of your faith, and leading your family in the wrong way. And likewise for a young man, if you're marrying someone who's not submitted to Christ herself, she's probably not going to submit to you. And as you're laying your life down for this person and they're laying their life down for the world, it's going to build up bitterness and resentment. I know you hear old people like us (I've entered into that category now. I'm officially an old man giving you advice.), but you hear this kind of advice all the time of just imploring you to think with future perspective and not immediate perspective. And I've been in your shoes before, so I know how hard it is to hear that sometimes. But a lot of this really does come down to that. You're investing in something in the future, and the fruit of it will be very bitter if you invest in the wrong way. And so we're asking you to maybe even listen to someone against what your heart, and your emotions, and the time are telling you to do. But maybe trust that these people actually do care about you a little bit. Your parents care about you, and they're not just trying to strip fun from you by saying, "Hey, I know he's cute and he's funny, but I don't think he has the qualities that are going to lead to your flourishing." There's a reason they're saying it.

Art Devos
No, absolutely. And we live in a culture that has damaged marriage significantly. Our culture has looked at marriage as something that is dissolvable and just like, look, if you want out, just be out. That's not what the Bible says. Marriage is in that Genesis 2 passage when it says, "and they shall become one flesh," it is one. It is about loyalty. It is about having the same passion and it is permanent.

Colby Houchin
And what does it say in Matthew 19? "What God brought together, let no man separate," right? It is the hardness of our sinful hearts that leads to broken marriages, but God desires that union forever for life.

Art Devos
Yeah. And so when we look at just the cultural context for marriage, yeah, it's really easy to question why guys like us would say, "don't marry an unbeliever." In fact, we will keep shouting it. Don't marry an unbeliever. If you are dating an unbeliever, you need to break up. We will tell that to you in love. It's not because we don't feel the same way about them, but here's the thing. It is for your-- It is for your, what am I trying to say here? It will do you way better, it'll serve you way better, your life will be better. And I know it's hard to see that, because you're having so much fun probably in that relationship with an unbeliever. Unbelievers are very fun sometimes, and it's very appealing. But the thing about it, is that fun stops. And if your faith is important to you, you'll realize that they're not doing anything to help you and encourage you and build you up in that.

Colby Houchin
And you said something that I want to make sure we say explicitly because we need to hear...we're talking about marriage, but you also said dating. This goes for dating as well. Because dating isn't actually something that like, "Hey, let's go to the dating passage of the Bible." Dating, the way we think about it today, wasn't what was practiced during any of the biblical times. And so we kind of have to apply some practical wisdom to, what does it look like to date because there is no biblical precedent. But what we see is that courtship or those relationships that led to marriage in biblical times. Like, the version today is dating. And they had a very similar standard of, we have these similar values and virtues and goals that we're trying to have. And so in dating, you need to have the perspective that, "Hey, I'm dating." It doesn't mean that we're so serious that we're definitely going to get married, but we need to have a certain seriousness of dating, of like, if we are completely misaligned to where marriage is not going to happen, then that's not a good relationship for believers to pursue. For all the reasons that we've already talked about, it just is not going to work out. So we're talking about marriage, but we're also talking about dating of, do not date unbelievers and also do not date to evangelize. That is a very foolish way to go about relationships. If it's, "I'm going to date this boy and I'm going to bring him to church, and then Jesus is going to change his heart, and then we're going to get married and have lots of babies." That's a really stupid way to do it. And your hearts are going to say, "but we can do it. We got it. We can do this." But it's a very foolish thing.

Art Devos
"This time it'll be different."

Adam Sanders
Yeah, but it won't. I would say this goes beyond just, even the non-believer. But I think as just a general piece of advice towards relationship, as it stands to that point, I think it's unfair to expect someone to drastically change any kind of characteristic or quality upon marriage. Yes, we all grow. I'm sure if our wives were here, they would testify that we're not the same men they married. And probably a lot of those things are for the better. A little

Colby Houchin
Or a little heavier maybe.

Adam Sanders
Growing in maturity, growing in girth, all of those kinds of things. But in a very real sense, if it's a core character value or belief or ideal, if it doesn't align with what you're looking for, don't expect marriage to flip someone around. And this is another, maybe I'm calling someone out here, and if I am, I'm doing so in love, I promise you. But there's also a component, especially when it comes to dating and puppy love. If you're engaging in any kind of flirtatious attention giving, even physical components of relationship (the handholding, the hugging, the bumping up against each other), our bodies are designed in such a way that that's going to knit your heart closer to somebody. And so, if you're doing that, your body is sending signals that says, "this person is the greatest person in the world and there's no one like them." I do promise you, that goes away to a certain extent, and it goes away very quickly. If there is a completely unequal yoking of ideals, purpose, belief, those things no longer cut the mustard, to use an old man phrase, since I'm an old man.

Colby Houchin
So, when I studied psychology and counseling, we tested the idea of, well, absence makes the heart grow fonder. And to go along with what you said, it doesn't. Scientifically, it doesn't. That distance actually, it fades that attraction and that bond, I think would be a good way to say it. But on the flip side, yeah. Being close and flirty and touchy and rubby and just close in proximity, it does bring people together. We are made for relationship, whether that be in romantic relationships or friendships or acquaintanceship. We are created to connect with other people. And so you're very right. That's going to be the natural process that takes place in that.

Adam Sanders
So if you're dating a non-believer, refuse to hold their hand for a long time, your emotions might change.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Safely Home by Randy Alcorn

What It’s About - “Is this the day I die?” Li Quan’s father had taught him from childhood to ask this question everyday. He told young Quan, “One day the answer will be yes, and on that day you must be ready.” 

Quan stiffened at the shout behind him. The voice rang with the authority of the Gong An Ju, the Public Security Bureau. “You meet in the night like the criminals you are. How dare you defy the law? In three minutes,”Scarbrow said matter-of-factly, “we will shoot every man and woman—and child—who does not declare himself loyal to the people rather than the gweilos, foreign devils.” Quan, Ming, and Shen clasped each other’s hands. Quan breathed deeply and braced himself, “Surely this is the day.” 

American business executive Ben Fielding has no idea what his brilliant old college roommate is facing in China. After twenty years he expects to pick up where they left off. But when they’re reunited in China, the men are shocked at what they discover about each other. The paths they’ve walked have shaped their lives and loyalties in radically different ways. Thrown together in an hour of encroaching darkness, watched by unseen eyes, both must make choices that will determine not only the destinies of two men, but two families, two nations…and two worlds.

Why Was John Called The One Jesus Loved?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Garry Schick
So we often think of John as the beloved disciple, or the disciple whom Jesus loved. And, of course, that's kind of a quote from the gospel, but why is he the beloved disciple? What did you come up with? My take on this is, we look at Peter the Rock and John the Beloved. These are the results of Jesus. This is not who they were coming into the discipleship though.

Jonathan Hernandez
You know, I always hear people say, like, "John coined himself the beloved disciple right?" Because it's only seen in the Gospel of John as him being called the beloved. He actually doesn't name himself throughout the gospel, but I think so we could look at that as, he's bragging, right? "Oh, I'm the beloved one. I'm the only beloved one." I mean, we could look at it that way. Or, you know, I think we could also look at it as he's telling, "this is who I am. This is who Jesus is. I am that beloved one." And he gives us that for us also, you know, as he's in there saying, "I'm the one that Jesus loves." We can coin that for ourselves too. "I am one that Jesus loves."

Garry Schick
Especially because he doesn't name himself. He gives the eyewitness account and we see through John's eyes and feel the love of Christ. I love that.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, and so that's the way I always look at it. He's setting up, in a sense, a roadmap for us that as he is walking through these things. He's saying, "I am the one that Jesus loved, and Peter is the one that Jesus loved. And he could go through all those and say, "Jesus truly does love each and every one of us." And so let's look at it that way as, "Jonathan Hernandez is the one that Jesus loves." And it's not a way of me bragging and saying, "oh, well, Jesus loves me more than He loves you." No, it's me grabbing a hold of that identity in Christ and saying, "I am the one that Jesus loves." And so, when I think of John and think of that, that's kind of how I think of it that way. John was called to follow Jesus with his brother, right? It was James. And I always think, in those moments, we don't hear them or we don't read them saying, "oh, should I follow him? Should I not follow him?" It's an instant, "I'm going, I'm doing this." And, you know, that really helps me too. When I feel like God has called me to step into something, I have a million questions. But also I know, am I obedient? And we see John being someone that who has been obedient. In the book of Revelation, it says, "Jesus calls him to come up here and I will show you these things." And he doesn't just say, "oh, well that sounds cool, Jesus, but I'm just going to keep on doing my own thing." No. He goes, and he witnesses and he partakes in those things. He partaked in the Last Supper. He was in all of these places where he had the opportunity to really see who Jesus truly is. Like I said, he was at the Last Supper, he was at the crucifixion, he was at the resurrection. He was at these important places and he was truly saying, "here I am, I am the beloved one because I'm following through." And so, that's what I like about John's story. Also, it's my name so that's kind of cool. But he was someone that was authentic. He truly had intimacy with Christ.

Garry Schick
He was in the top three.

Jonathan Hernandez
He was part of the inner circle.

Garry Schick
Peter, James, and John. Those were the inner circle.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, and so he was part of that circle. And it wasn't like, I don't want to say he didn't earn it. I don't know how to coin it better, but he desired to be part of that. He was part of that, and he enjoyed being part of that. And he, I hate using the words "works," but he worked within that and he knew his identity. And so when we know who we are in Christ, we can move and operate within those gifts. John operated within who he was and who God has called him to be. And when God called me to be a pastor, I truly didn't want to do it. I was like, "no, I don't want to be in front of people. I don't like to talk. I stutter sometimes. I have a learning disability." I had all these excuses, right?

Garry Schick
Yeah. You and Moses.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, exactly. I used all these excuses, but God called me. And so, out of obedience, I was like, "okay God, if this is who you've called me to be, I'm going to operate in who you've called me to be." And John, he does that. He operates in who God has called him to be. And he was there and he did the things that Christ had called him to do. Like I said, in the Book of Revelation, he penned the gospel. He was willing. And I think that's what we need to be, is we need to be willing to be who God has called us to be. And we see that with John.

Garry Schick
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it's interesting. We again, like with Peter, we call him the Rock. But when did he firm up? When Christ was raised, when he received the Holy Spirit, he was always a work in progress. And to a degree, so was John. He's called the beloved. And you're right. In a sense, it's a name he kind of gives himself in the gospel. We think John wrote it. The evidence, the witness to him as the author of the Gospel of John is universal. And he really does make sense as that person. But he is giving us a glimpse through his eyes, letting us with our own eyes, see Jesus. And it's such a beautiful thing. But when we really look at John, the man throughout the four gospels, we see that this gentle, loving, faithful follower of Jesus, he didn't start off quite that way. Faithful? Yeah, I think we could say that. But really a guy with some rough edges. I mean, he and his brother James were known as Sons of Thunder. And it is a nickname they earned. I mean, at one point, they wanted to call fire down on some people and have them utterly burned up for not letting Jesus enter their town. They were people who they were in the inner circle, but they wanted even further in. At one point, whether it was them or whether they were through their mom. But one way or another, they were asking Jesus, "Hey, when you enter your kingdom by the way, we'd like to sit at your right and your left. Can we get that done?" And they were angling for themselves, John. And if you read particularly his letters, they're powerful, but they're a little rough because he's such a black and white thinker. So John had some really rough edges, and yet as you point out, he was an authentic guy. He was passionate. We read, and we also see the balance coming. For example, the word "truth" in his writing shows up 45 times. So truth was big, and truth is tough. Truth can be harsh, you know, but he learned the balance in Jesus. In his gospel, he writes, "the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." We have seen His glory. The glory of the one only came from the Father full of grace and truth. So, we do read "truth" 45 times in his writings, but we read the word "love" 80 times. So love is something he experienced through Christ, and he grew to emulate in Christ, and he had to learn in Jesus to put himself aside, to put others first. At the cross, Jesus puts John in charge of taking care of his mom. So, I don't know what John's plans were before that, but he becomes the one who takes care of Mary until the day of her death, whenever that was. I don't know how old she lived to be, but his plans had to be put on hold. He was a man who suffered a great deal. Yes, he is the one who on that walk on the beach, we kind of talked about that last time. The breakfast on the beach that he and the other disciples had with Jesus. He and Peter take a walk. Peter learns how he's going to die. But John, Jesus says, "well, if I want him to be alive till I come, what's that to you?" Now, John clarifies, he didn't say, "I will be alive till he comes." But John does appear to be the only one who dies a natural death. You say, "oh, well, he didn't suffer much." Well, his brother was the first one to be martyred. So he suffered the loss of his brother. He stood there. He was close to the cross when Jesus died, standing there with Mary and the other women. He may not have been physically put to death. He may have lived to an old age. But we know from the gospel of John that at one point, he's exiled. He's in exile on the island of Patmos when he receives the revelation. Tradition tells us, again, is that historical? We don't know. It was written, like, 300 years later, but it was the next earliest history after the Book of Acts. Tradition tells us at one point he's boiled in oil. Now, I don't even know how he survived that. But he apparently was tortured for his faith at some level. So he suffers for Christ and sees, not only his brother die, but if he's the last remaining alive disciple, he sees all the others go to the grave for Christ. And he's still holding the torch when he is literally the last man standing. Again, this doesn't come from Eusebius, the writer of the verse history, but I think it's Jerome. He tells us that he was living in Ephesus and it seems even from the scriptures that we get the impression that John has a close connection with the church in Ephesus. And it appears that in his very old age, he's restored from the island of Patmos and literally being carried into the congregation. And as he is, and this is our final take on John, because this is who he ultimately became. He would say, "love one another." And somebody asked him one day, "why do you keep saying, 'love one another?" He said, "because the Lord commanded us, 'love one another." But that was a hard lesson for John. We kind of read it. We go, "oh, that's John." Actually, if you look back to his early life, that's not who John was. John was a self-serving, independent, fire and brimstone, son to thunder, argumentative, angry guy. But having Jesus in his life softened him, formed him, shaped him anew into this incredibly; not kind of a weak, oh, loving, gentle John. No. A strong, passionate ardent, devoted, love for Christ and because he loved Jesus, love for others. And you know what? Loving others can be so tough.

Jonathan Hernandez
It can be.

Garry Schick
But to love when you're getting knocked in the nose, that's a different thing. And that's the way Christ loves us. And you know what John did? He sat close to Jesus, and ultimately he embraced not only Jesus as Savior, but Jesus, Lord of his life. This is who Jesus is. This is who I choose. This is what the path I choose that I'm growing up to be through Him. So friends, I know you're sitting out there thinking, "man, I got some rough edges. I'm a long way from John." John was a long way from John when he started. The story's not done on any of us, but do what John's gospel just helps us do. Keep your eyes on Jesus and know that he who so loved the world, so loved you. And His love can live in you and through you. And that is the love that transforms the world. It's John who writes, "by this all will know that you're my disciples." Not by what you know, but by your love for one another, which is tough, but it's how Jesus loves us every day. Tough love, Jonathan.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. John came from a fishing family, more than likely, a fairly well off fishing family. And when Jesus called him, he went, you know? He could have stayed there and stayed rich, but there was something rich with being with Jesus. And he ultimately got that great reward at the end.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Holding Onto The Relationships That Matter

Forgiving What You Can’t Forget - Have you ever felt stuck in a cycle of unresolved pain, playing offenses over and over in your mind? You know you can’t go on like this, but you don’t know what to do next. Lysa TerKeurst has wrestled through this journey. But in surprising ways, she’s discovered how to let go of bound-up resentment and overcome the resistance to forgiving people who aren’t willing to make things right. With deep empathy, therapeutic insight, and rich Bible teaching coming out of more than one thousand hours of study, Lysa will help you: 

• Learn how to move on when the other person refuses to change and never says they’re sorry.

• Walk through a step-by-step process to free yourself from the hurt of your past and feel less offended today.

• Discover what the Bible really says about forgiveness and the peace that comes from living it out right now. 

• Identify what’s stealing trust and vulnerability from your relationships so you can believe there is still good ahead. 

• Disempower the triggers hijacking your emotions by embracing the two necessary parts of forgiveness. 

Closer To God - A deep connection with God is not only possible, but vital to a vibrant life. And this powerful, 40-day devotional will help you enjoy the deeper life with God that you long for. Through the pages of Closer to God, written by Bible teacher Jeannie Cunnion, you will be equipped to: 

• Remove the barriers to experiencing God in your daily life

• Enjoy the life-altering benefits of His tangible presence, or “withness”

• Live Spirit-strong in a profoundly new way

If you desire to feel God’s soul-refreshing presence and hear Him speaking in your everyday life, this book is for you. Join Jeannie in discovering the profound difference God’s empowering presence makes, and how we can enjoy more of it, starting today. 

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? Who is Your Unsung Hero?

Behind the Lights - In this inspiring debut memoir, Helen Smallbone, mother of seven creative children―including Christian music artists for KING & COUNTRY and Rebecca St. James―chronicles the family’s journey of faith across the ocean to go where God was leading. Written from a mother’s perspective, Helen shares stories of peaks, valleys, and a family trusting God for provision. Helen Smallbone’s heartfelt story illustrates what it means to really let God lead, which almost always means living outside the box of how the world says to live. How did an ordinary Australian family produce two Grammy Award–winning artists―Rebecca St. James and for KING & COUNTRY? What happened to bring the Smallbones through closed doors and to new beginnings in the US? In Behind the Lights, Helen shares not only these stories of her family but of the life lessons they all learned along the way. In 1991 Helen and her husband, David, packed up their family and sixteen suitcases to move from Australia to the United States. Completely isolated from the support of family and friends, they relied on God to provide them with hope and direction. Helen watched her children join forces as Rebecca St. James’ career grew, soon followed by blossoming careers for the others―as artists, entrepreneurs, filmmakers―and the rise of Joel and Luke for KING & COUNTRY on Christian music charts. Helen shares untold stories and insights into how her family worked and stuck together, constantly relying on their faith to guide the way. No matter where you are in life, Helen shows through her own experiences that what God has done in her life, He will do in yours, too.

Unsung Hero - Based on a remarkable true story, Unsung Hero follows Helen and her husband David Smallbone as they move their family from Down Under to the States with nothing more than their seven children, suitcases, and their love of music. As Helen and David set out to rebuild their lives, they begin to realize the musical prowess in their children, who would go on to become two of the most successful acts in inspirational music history: five time GRAMMY Award-winning artists for King & Country and Rebecca St. James. 

My Thoughts: My first experience with music from For King & Country was when I first heard their song, “God Only Knows.” It was my senior year, and I felt like I had to make all these decisions before graduation. I was tired and overwhelmed. But then I heard this song. It talks about how God knows I’m tired and He knows what I’ve endured. His love is greater than all the pain and heartache. From there, I have fallen in love with such songs as: Together, Burn the Ships, Fix My Eyes, and What Are We Waiting For? When I heard that there was going to be a movie made about their family, I was definitely going to go see it in theaters. And what I saw was a beautiful film about faith through adversity, the power of prayer, and of course, it’s about the love of family. I am disappointed to say that I had not heard of Rebecca St. James before seeing the movie. But her song that was featured at the end of the film, “You Make Everything Beautiful,” is definitely a new favorite and I will be looking for more of her music for sure. If you would like to learn more about how Rebecca St. James got her start in Christian music, and how the Smallbone family navigated life in America, come on into the Cross Reference Library and check out Helen’s book. And don’t miss out on the amazing film as well.

Why Did God Make Things That Could Kill Us?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Camp Pastors Adam Sanders, Colby Houchin, and Art Devos.

Art Devos
Hey, we want to welcome you to Ask a Camp Pastor podcast. We took a one month hiatus while summer camp was still going on, but I can tell you that we have way more questions. We're looking at two printed out sheets here full of questions, some of which we've already answered, but a lot of which we haven't. We're going to get to those and we are going to do our best to answer them honestly and biblically. So let's kick it off right away. We have a fun little follow-up question that we paired here with this question about creation. And it is, "why did God create things that can kill us?"

Colby Houchin
There's a few different ways that we can talk about this. And what I think is funny about it is, if you're super astute, you might be like, "doesn't that argue against something that you just said with the creation thing?" And I am going to say, "I don't think it does." I just think that's part of the, like, as we talk about how things are introduced into this world. One idea that I thought of through this, I heard somebody say that---and I don't know where I land on this. I think this is kind of kooky, but it kind of makes sense. And they're like, "you realize that carnivores and stuff would just eat grass in the garden, right?" Think of lions grazing with cows and goats and stuff. And they would look at just the, well, what did God give to animals? He gave them the things of this ground. And I don't think that lions were tearing apart animals in Eden, but were lions there? I mean, it doesn't say it, but it doesn't say they weren't. And it doesn't say that lions were introduced in Genesis four. So, you kind of have to ask those questions of like, okay, when did lions come? When did they start ripping goats in half? Or, you know, "eat of all of the trees of the garden, eat of all of this, but that mushroom will kill you though." When did the mushroom come? I don't know. And so, it's like, would that have killed Adam and Eve? Would it have given them a big stomach ache? But an apple from the tree of life would've made it all better? I have no idea. But I'm joking(I'm half joking here). But those are kind of the fun questions we can ask in this question.

Art Devos
I mean, we're told our days are numbered, right? So if I'm going to get taken out of this world because I stubbed my toe one day, so be it. I really hope that's not how I go.

Colby Houchin
I will laugh at you so bad.

Art Devos
"Remember that podcast he said he'd stub his toe and die and he did."

Colby Houchin
Your funeral is going to be so funny if you die with a stubbed toe.

Art Devos
Or, you know, I just had an amazing trip up to Alaska. I could have met a bear and also met my end because of the bear. It's just, you'll look at things like that. My days are numbered. It doesn't mean I just go out and live crazily and try to test this today. I'm not going to do that. But at the same time, I don't worry about what's going to come by and take me out of this world either. Animals have instinct, right? And their instinct for, you know, after the fall and everything, their instinct is for food. Their instinct is not just destruction. There's very few animals that actually kill for sport. Few. There are some that do.

Colby Houchin
Humans being one of them.

Adam Sanders
And Ducks.

Colby Houchin
Ducks?

Adam Sanders
Ducks are nasty animals, man. If you look it up sometime...

Art Devos
Okay, but listen, I mean, I feel like that could use some more explanation after this is done. But orcas, they play with their food. They definitely torment their food.

Colby Houchin
But it's still food. I think they just pick on 'em.

Art Devos
Right. But they're going for food. So you just kind of look at that sort of stuff, like they're out to satisfy their instinct of getting food.

Adam Sanders
I think, so, I might be misunderstanding the way this question was asked. But I do think one important part of the equation to bring into the conversation is, there are two things that are both separate, but also work together in the world that we live in. I think there is God's intended created design and order. And then there is the corruption of that through sin. We see throughout scripture the idea that sin begets death. And so we do see a direct line through there of where death is occurring. Sin is the culprit. It wasn't God's design and purpose in that thing. And so part of me thinks in that regard, there is a natural process in which we recognize that things, killing other things, are outside of their God-intended created function to do so. Another thing that kind of immediately pops in my mind when I say this is that pretty much everything can kill you. There's kind of funny stats. You can look at that. But there really are a few things that couldn't kill you if there was the right amount of them at the right time and the right place.

Colby Houchin
Is it Missouri's shark? Statistics are not zero. And by the way, Missouri does not touch an ocean. I think there's a river.

Adam Sanders
Yeah, the Mississippi great white or something like that. Yeah, for sure. And I think even within that, this kind of goes back into God taking even corrupt and sinful things and yet using it for his glory still. I just recently preached out of the book of Genesis, the flood account. I didn't preach the flood account, but immediately after that, we see the first time that God gives the prescription that you may eat of animals. What just happened with the flood, though? The entire earth was stripped of all its resources, all of its nutrients, all of its plants. There was nothing else to eat. And so in many ways, God is giving them the way to survive and stay alive. We also know in our fallen world, what happens if there are a bunch of mice running around? They bring diseases with them. Most of us here probably don't like snakes, but snakes regulate those mice. They eat 'em, keep from getting too far away. So we see even within that, there is a benefit to areas to have this process of things eating and killing. And so, not to get overly philosophical and complicated, but--

Colby Houchin
Well, maybe to get slightly over philosophical and complic complicated. I think it's worth pondering. I don't feel like we have time here, but I think it's worth pondering just the depths of just the way that our world works. And kind of what you said of what part of this is God's design and what part of this isn't. So we've talked here about the God's design of the thing within each and every one of our cells, the protein molecule that binds us together is shaped like a cross. That is a design, that is something beautiful. I kind of alluded to it. I don't think lions ripping goats in half, I don't think that was a design of God. I think that was in order for this animal to survive in a sinful, broken world, there's an act of death and destruction that is required in order to do that. And I think we can really think deeply about the tree that falls, that tree that God created, that it falls and it hits us. It's gonna kill us. But that tree that falls and dies eventually rots and it is a dead thing that also now gives life and nourishment to the land. And so God can redeem even broken things. A really good scripture that I wish I had looked up, it's spoken in biblical prophecy, but it talks about how spears and sickles, and I can't remember where it is. If you know, let me know. It's about where basically weapons are going to be used as tools for farming and tools for creation. And so the idea is that one of the beautiful things about God's redemptive plan is that humans are going to make things that are pokey and will kill each other, but in the fulfillment of God's promises, those pokey things that could kill us, they're not going to have a use. So we're going to use it to cultivate the ground, to build more life, because death isn't going to be a part of it. Life is going to be the only thing that exists after that. And we just want a beautiful picture of, yeah, this thing that could kill us, God's going to use it for good eventually, and some of this stuff that kills us is going to be damned and destroyed, but other parts of what can kill us and harm us is going to be redefined in a way that brings life. And that's just part of the promise of God and it's beautiful.

Adam Sanders
Yeah, I was actually thinking of that same passage. I believe it's in Isaiah. I'm not entirely sure, but I also think I was thinking with that too. There is a reference to, children will be playing next to the nest of an asp, which is a very poisonous snake and they won't be bitten, right? And so yeah, just to piggyback on what Colby said with that redemptive nature of it.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library? What It Means to Lead

Beneath A Golden Veil - As elegant as the Sacramento residence she operates, Isabelle Labrie keeps her past concealed, like the treasure she hides under the Golden Hotel. It’s 1853, the heyday of the California Gold Rush. Isabelle is full of hope, staking her claim on the city’s refined clientele and her future on a sweetheart’s promise to marry her when he returns from the gold fields. Then, unexpected guests—fugitive slaves seeking safe passage to the North—force her to confront her past and reconsider her path. While Isabelle learns to trust God’s provisions, a law student in Virginia must confront his father’s cruelty and rescue a young slave from his family’s tobacco plantation. As the two escape to freedom, and Isabelle risks everything to harbor runaway slaves, the past and present are set on an inevitable collision course—one that reveals hidden treasures of the heart.

About The Author - Melanie Dobson has written fifteen historical, romance, and suspense novels—including Chateau of Secrets and Shadows of Ladenbrooke Manor—and three of her novels have won Carol Awards. Her first novel featuring the Underground Railroad, Love finds You in Liberty, Indiana, won Best Novel of Indiana in 2010, and The Black Cloister was named Foreword Reviews’ Religious Fiction Book of the Year in 2008. “My desire,” Melanie says, “is that the stories God has etched in my heart will give readers a glimpse of His love and grace, even when they don’t understand His plan.” The former corporate publicity manager at Focus on the Family and owner of Dobson Media Group, Melanie now writes full time. She and her husband, Jon, and their two daughters live near Portland, Oregon, where they enjoy hiking and camping on the coast and n the mountains of the Pacific Northwest. When she isn’t hiking, practicing yoga, or reading with her girls, Melanie loves to explore old cemeteries and ghost towns.

A Fine Sight to See -  With relatable stories and disarming grace, popular podcaster and author Sophie Hudson cuts through the confusing, differing stances on Christian women in leadership and offers a resource that empowers women to embrace their roles as leaders. Drawing from the book of Exodus, and using her trademark humor, Sophie skillfully helps you

· identify the leadership traits you already possess

· serve with boldness inside and outside the church

· lead faithfully and consistently

This is your invitation to embrace leadership with confidence and to find joy in understanding how God sees you. Prepare to be inspired, encouraged, and equipped to embrace the truth that you are uniquely made to lead.

About the Author - Sophie Hudson is a bestselling author who began blogging at BooMama.net way back in 2005, and she has cohosted The Big Boo Cast since 2007. These two things basically make her feel like the internet’s mama. Sophie loves cheering at live sporting events, cooking her mama’s recipes for a crowd of friends, and watching entire seasons of TV shows in record time. As someone who loves to laugh more than just about anything, Sophie hopes that women find encouragement, comfort, and connection through her books. She lives with her husband in Birmingham, Alabama, where they enjoy any opportunity to spend time with their college-aged son.