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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Camp Pastors Adam Sanders, Colby Houchin, and Art Devos.
Art Devos
Hey, we want to welcome you to Ask a Camp Pastor podcast. We took a one month hiatus while summer camp was still going on, but I can tell you that we have way more questions. We're looking at two printed out sheets here full of questions, some of which we've already answered, but a lot of which we haven't. We're going to get to those and we are going to do our best to answer them honestly and biblically. So let's kick it off right away. We have a fun little follow-up question that we paired here with this question about creation. And it is, "why did God create things that can kill us?"
Colby Houchin
There's a few different ways that we can talk about this. And what I think is funny about it is, if you're super astute, you might be like, "doesn't that argue against something that you just said with the creation thing?" And I am going to say, "I don't think it does." I just think that's part of the, like, as we talk about how things are introduced into this world. One idea that I thought of through this, I heard somebody say that---and I don't know where I land on this. I think this is kind of kooky, but it kind of makes sense. And they're like, "you realize that carnivores and stuff would just eat grass in the garden, right?" Think of lions grazing with cows and goats and stuff. And they would look at just the, well, what did God give to animals? He gave them the things of this ground. And I don't think that lions were tearing apart animals in Eden, but were lions there? I mean, it doesn't say it, but it doesn't say they weren't. And it doesn't say that lions were introduced in Genesis four. So, you kind of have to ask those questions of like, okay, when did lions come? When did they start ripping goats in half? Or, you know, "eat of all of the trees of the garden, eat of all of this, but that mushroom will kill you though." When did the mushroom come? I don't know. And so, it's like, would that have killed Adam and Eve? Would it have given them a big stomach ache? But an apple from the tree of life would've made it all better? I have no idea. But I'm joking(I'm half joking here). But those are kind of the fun questions we can ask in this question.
Art Devos
I mean, we're told our days are numbered, right? So if I'm going to get taken out of this world because I stubbed my toe one day, so be it. I really hope that's not how I go.
Colby Houchin
I will laugh at you so bad.
Art Devos
"Remember that podcast he said he'd stub his toe and die and he did."
Colby Houchin
Your funeral is going to be so funny if you die with a stubbed toe.
Art Devos
Or, you know, I just had an amazing trip up to Alaska. I could have met a bear and also met my end because of the bear. It's just, you'll look at things like that. My days are numbered. It doesn't mean I just go out and live crazily and try to test this today. I'm not going to do that. But at the same time, I don't worry about what's going to come by and take me out of this world either. Animals have instinct, right? And their instinct for, you know, after the fall and everything, their instinct is for food. Their instinct is not just destruction. There's very few animals that actually kill for sport. Few. There are some that do.
Colby Houchin
Humans being one of them.
Adam Sanders
And Ducks.
Colby Houchin
Ducks?
Adam Sanders
Ducks are nasty animals, man. If you look it up sometime...
Art Devos
Okay, but listen, I mean, I feel like that could use some more explanation after this is done. But orcas, they play with their food. They definitely torment their food.
Colby Houchin
But it's still food. I think they just pick on 'em.
Art Devos
Right. But they're going for food. So you just kind of look at that sort of stuff, like they're out to satisfy their instinct of getting food.
Adam Sanders
I think, so, I might be misunderstanding the way this question was asked. But I do think one important part of the equation to bring into the conversation is, there are two things that are both separate, but also work together in the world that we live in. I think there is God's intended created design and order. And then there is the corruption of that through sin. We see throughout scripture the idea that sin begets death. And so we do see a direct line through there of where death is occurring. Sin is the culprit. It wasn't God's design and purpose in that thing. And so part of me thinks in that regard, there is a natural process in which we recognize that things, killing other things, are outside of their God-intended created function to do so. Another thing that kind of immediately pops in my mind when I say this is that pretty much everything can kill you. There's kind of funny stats. You can look at that. But there really are a few things that couldn't kill you if there was the right amount of them at the right time and the right place.
Colby Houchin
Is it Missouri's shark? Statistics are not zero. And by the way, Missouri does not touch an ocean. I think there's a river.
Adam Sanders
Yeah, the Mississippi great white or something like that. Yeah, for sure. And I think even within that, this kind of goes back into God taking even corrupt and sinful things and yet using it for his glory still. I just recently preached out of the book of Genesis, the flood account. I didn't preach the flood account, but immediately after that, we see the first time that God gives the prescription that you may eat of animals. What just happened with the flood, though? The entire earth was stripped of all its resources, all of its nutrients, all of its plants. There was nothing else to eat. And so in many ways, God is giving them the way to survive and stay alive. We also know in our fallen world, what happens if there are a bunch of mice running around? They bring diseases with them. Most of us here probably don't like snakes, but snakes regulate those mice. They eat 'em, keep from getting too far away. So we see even within that, there is a benefit to areas to have this process of things eating and killing. And so, not to get overly philosophical and complicated, but--
Colby Houchin
Well, maybe to get slightly over philosophical and complic complicated. I think it's worth pondering. I don't feel like we have time here, but I think it's worth pondering just the depths of just the way that our world works. And kind of what you said of what part of this is God's design and what part of this isn't. So we've talked here about the God's design of the thing within each and every one of our cells, the protein molecule that binds us together is shaped like a cross. That is a design, that is something beautiful. I kind of alluded to it. I don't think lions ripping goats in half, I don't think that was a design of God. I think that was in order for this animal to survive in a sinful, broken world, there's an act of death and destruction that is required in order to do that. And I think we can really think deeply about the tree that falls, that tree that God created, that it falls and it hits us. It's gonna kill us. But that tree that falls and dies eventually rots and it is a dead thing that also now gives life and nourishment to the land. And so God can redeem even broken things. A really good scripture that I wish I had looked up, it's spoken in biblical prophecy, but it talks about how spears and sickles, and I can't remember where it is. If you know, let me know. It's about where basically weapons are going to be used as tools for farming and tools for creation. And so the idea is that one of the beautiful things about God's redemptive plan is that humans are going to make things that are pokey and will kill each other, but in the fulfillment of God's promises, those pokey things that could kill us, they're not going to have a use. So we're going to use it to cultivate the ground, to build more life, because death isn't going to be a part of it. Life is going to be the only thing that exists after that. And we just want a beautiful picture of, yeah, this thing that could kill us, God's going to use it for good eventually, and some of this stuff that kills us is going to be damned and destroyed, but other parts of what can kill us and harm us is going to be redefined in a way that brings life. And that's just part of the promise of God and it's beautiful.
Adam Sanders
Yeah, I was actually thinking of that same passage. I believe it's in Isaiah. I'm not entirely sure, but I also think I was thinking with that too. There is a reference to, children will be playing next to the nest of an asp, which is a very poisonous snake and they won't be bitten, right? And so yeah, just to piggyback on what Colby said with that redemptive nature of it.