You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.
This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Mike Clement and Michael Glebb.
Michael Clement
But we're gonna continue on where we were. And I got a little long-winded last time. It was a hard time stopping. And we were talking about the person in the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and we were talking about the fact that Jesus is coming again. And then related to that, there are two other issues that are greatly debated by just, you know, not just little weird groups in one sense or another, but churches that are Orthodox and hold to the gospel and hold to the Bible. But they look at things differently. They understand things differently. And we were talking about the rapture, first of all, and not every group holds the same position on the rapture. Jesus said he would come again, but he, in the book of 1 Corinthians, it says, "that the dead in Christ will be raised first and that we who are alive will be caught up together with him. And so shall we ever be with the Lord." That may not be 1 Corinthians, but it's living believers that are caught up. And we go to meet the Lord in the air. And if you take a literal interpretation of the Bible, and if you recognize the idea that Israel are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And that the church is made up of Jews and Gentiles, bond and free, male and female, and had its beginning pretty much at, on the day of Pentecost, and is a very unique entity. So there's a difference between Israel and the church. If you hold to those truths, take the Bible literally, difference between Israel and the church, you're gonna come up with a pre-millennial or a pre-tribulational rapture. Now, there is what's become popular today, brother Mike, and you probably have heard this, is the pre-wrath view. And the pre-wrath view used to be called Mid-Tribulational. And there was a fellow who was the head of, I believe it was Friends of Israel. And, in fact, he's been to this area. And he wrote a book on the pre-wrath rapture changed his position, stepped down from his position in that organization, because that was a pre-tribulational view that they held. And they became very popular talking about the pre-wrath rapture, mid-tribulational. Now, the tribulation period recorded in the book of Revelation is a seven year period. And when you look at it, there are a number of references to that mid-period, three and a half years. Something pretty interesting happens at that three and a half year period. And that comes outta scripture, but it's not clear that that's when the rapture takes place. But there are many that hold to that position today. And then there's a post-tribulational rapture. And what you have in the Book of Revelation, you see at the end of the book of Revelation, there's a great resurrection, and it's called the First Resurrection in scripture. Well, and, and many have said, well, that's the rapture. You know, because obviously something takes place there. It says that people are raised, but it doesn't make reference to the translation of living believers. That living believers are now, their bodies are changed to the same body that Jesus had when he was raised from the dead. But those three views are found in Christianity with regards to the rapture. Now, there's also the whole area of, when is the second coming supposed to take place in relationship to the millennium? The millennium is a period of how long Brother Mike? A thousand years? That's what millennium means. And the Bible talks about this millennial period. It's a period when Jesus will, again, if you take it literally, that Jesus will physically rule and reign from Jerusalem over the entire Earth. All kinds of things will be changed. People will live through that whole millennial period. There will be true justice. And that's just a lot of things that'll be exceptional during that period. So there are those that have debated in Christianity. Well, when will Jesus come in relationship to the millennium? And there was a view that was very popular at the turn of the last century in the early 1900's. It was called Post-millennialism. And post-millennialism was the idea that Christians would gradually have such an impact on the world, that the world will become Christianized. That it will get better and better and better. And one of the evidences of that was, World War I. Do you remember what World War I was called? The Great War. The Great War was also called "The War to End All Wars." And in fact, at the end of World War I, our government took a lot of battleships and sunk them because that was gonna be the last war that the world ever had. Because Christianity was making all these changes, and people just held on to the idea that things were just gonna get better and better and better. And we're not gonna need all this. Right. Because, and that was a byproduct of Post Millennialism. Well, World War II, Korea and Vietnam pretty much killed that idea, at least for a while. But interestingly, it's coming back. There are people that are holding to the idea, that in fact, Christianity is gonna change the world. And that eventually, it'll be just like what the Bible calls Millennium.
Michael Gleb
There's a movement now, and you can see this with social media sort of gearing us and turning us towards Christian nationalism. And I think that a Christian culture is a good culture. I think that is obviously the right culture. But nothing changes the heart outside of a personal relationship with Christ. And you can be in a Christian culture and not know Jesus. And so that's the biggest issue that I see with that. But that's coming back. You're right about that. And I didn't make that connection, but there is now a lot of talk about Christian, sort of, nationalism. We talk about America in terms of a Christian nation, because of its foundation, and that's a good thing. But again, being born in America is not saving anybody.
Michael Clement
It gives you a better chance.
Michael Gleb
That is true.
Michael Clement
A better chance of hearing the gospel here in America than anywhere else in the world. I just came back from a trip to my son and his family down in Brazil. And that is a whole different culture. I think every American should spend at least a week in a third world country. And they would get off the plane and get on their knees and kiss the ground and thank God for the country that they have the privilege of living in. Anyway, post Millennialism has the idea that there'll be this, in bringing in of the millennial kingdom by the church, by missions. And then eventually the world will be Christianized, and at the end of that, Christ will come, and then he'll judge the nations, and eternity will begin. Then there's a millennialism, and sometimes that's been called realize millennialism. And there's a number of ideas, and I really don't want to misrepresent it, but one of the ideas is that, what happened in 70 AD with the fall of Jerusalem, that was the tribulation. That all the things that are said in the book of Revelation, about the judgements and all that, that took place in 70 AD and now, since 70 AD we've been living in the Millennium. The millennium is a time when Christ reigns, but it teaches, well, Christ is reigning in the hearts of men. He's reigning through the church, he's making his influence known through the church. And that there will come a time in the future sometime when Christ will physically return again. But this is the millennium now, which means Satan is bound now. And there's a lot of people, including me, that have a hard time wrapping their heads around that idea. So anyway, there's all these different views of the individual details, timing. One of the things that scripture encourages us, is that we need to be ready. You know, we always need to be ready. When I was first saved, there was a lot of talk about the second coming of the Lord. I mean, oh, there was just, you know, the signs and Israel became a nation and, oh, there was just all this talk about the second coming of the Lord. There were prophecy conferences and a group of churches in northern New Jersey had a round robin prophecy conference. And they got guys like John Walford and some other guys who, they would be at one church one night and another church another night, and they just rotated these guys around. And boy, everybody was talking about it, and everybody was excited. Well, I came home, we lived in this trailer court, and I came home from a youth group activity, and I'm walking through the trailer court and I happened to look up in the sky, and the moon had a ring around it. I had never seen the moon with a ring around it. And I didn't know a whole lot about the Bible, but I remembered something about there being signs in heaven before the second coming of the Lord. And I thought, "my goodness, Jesus is gonna come! What do I need to do?" And right nearby was the trailer of a friend of mine, and as far as I know, they didn't know the Lord. And I ran over to their door, and I pounded on the door. And this friend's mother came to the door, she said, "mike, what's wrong?" And I pointed up in the sky and said, "Look, look, look!" And she looked up and she said, "oh yeah, ring around the moon. Haven't you ever seen one of those before?" "No, I haven't."
Michael Gleb
Jesus is coming back!
Michael Clement
That's what I'm saying. I was expecting any moment to hear the trumpet. I heard a pastor one time say that, you know, "scripture says that in the twinkling an eye, at the last trump, that Christ would come." And he said, "scientists have actually tried to figure out how quick the twinkling of an eye is. And it's, like, nanoseconds." You know, just instantaneous. He said, "but the sound of a trump will take a few seconds," he said, "so I got a two second message." He said, I hear a trump and I'm gonna say, you better all get saved right now, I'm going to heaven." And boom, off he goes.
Michael Gleb
And it's interesting when you think about, when we talk about this, I've always been kind of same with you as we had a lot of talk about prophecy. And some people wanted to camp on prophecy. And there was maybe this over-emphasis on it. And some people, I think, really just wanted to scare people. I really, truly, think that was what they desire to do. And the return of Christ should not scare any Christian. It shouldn't be a frightening thing. It should, matter of fact, I think it's Paul that writes and he says, you know, "comfort one another with these words." And this is a comforting thing, but you know, what are we to do? Well, it's simple. You know, I've told our church before, I said, "there's the wake up walk with the Lord." Commune with Him. Love the people that God has placed in your life; abstain from sin. That's a pretty good day in the life of a Christian. And so that's what we do. And if you can tell somebody about Jesus, I mean, that would be another important thing to do, because every single day, it's a day closer to that day.
Michael Clement
And John Walford once made the comment, and it was back in the early 60's when all these conferences were going on. He said, "isn't it sad?" He said, "if we have a prophecy conference, tons of people will come out. If we have a conference on holiness, on prayer, on evangelism," he said, "you don't get the response." And yet that's the reason for prophecy. You know, that these things should motivate us in our Christian life.