Intergenerational Ministry Part 4

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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Kiley Callaway, John Mulholland and Jon Simpson.

Jon Simpson
So, we kind of ended the last session and we kind of want to pick up there again and continue this bonus session. So we ended with a reading in Psalms, was it 77 or 78?

John Mulholland
Part of Psalm 78.

Jon Simpson
About the responsibility really, that God has certainly built into the nation of Israel. But really, we could go back and say, He built this into the creation, the way in which He created us as human beings. The way we're produced, the way that we knit together. And where this knowledge and how this knowledge and all this, is supposed to be passed on, it really is in the family. And so why don't you read that again, John?

John Mulholland
Yeah, so Psalm 78: Failed Family Discipleship. There are 72 verses, I'm just gonna start at the beginning and just read through verse four, which is where we ended off. "All my people, listen to my instructions. Open your ears to hear what I'm saying, for I will speak to you in a parable. I will teach you hidden lessons from our past, we've heard and known stories our ancestors handed down to us. We will not hide these truths from our children. We will tell the next generation about the glory seeds of the Lord, about His power and His mighty wonders." So, there's a, I wanna say it's in 1 Corinthians 12, Paul talks about the reason, like, we have stories from the past. He says, "they're written as an example to us," and I think I'm getting the order wrong. Like, he talks about how they're written as an example, and they're written as a warning. I tell my people that, like, I basically have four sermons that I tell on repeat. This is one of those sermon stories; stories from the past to warn us and stories as an example. I think that's what the Psalmist is honing in on, like, "I will teach you hidden lessons from our past." So the things that happened, the historical things that happened to the Jewish people, were actual historic events. These are literal, these things happened, and they are parables, they're metaphors. They're teaching a deeper spiritual reality, and that is like, we don't want to just tell them, "Yeah, we were, you know, we came across the red sea and bladdy, blah, blah, blah." We wanna tell them what that means, right? And that's, you know, kind of our job as pastors, is not just to tell people what the Bible says, but what it means. And I just love verse four, "We will not hide these truths from our children." See that? That tells me that there's a tendency in our sinful nature to not---

Jon Simpson
Yeah, and like I said last time, there's even this message to parents, "you should not influence your children in the arena of what their faith is. What they're gonna believe in, they need to decide for themselves." And of course, we're getting into this in a lot of areas where children are being given the responsibility, whatever you wanna call it, to choose a lot about who they are. But this is a cultural value. I know people that, you know, my oldest daughter, she grew up, went to college and then after college she was working a job. She was around her peers and there would be, I don't know, conversations maybe about things happening in the world related to faith, related to politics or whatever. And I remember she said, "Dad, there's this girl in my office over at work, and she said, 'you know, growing up we never talked about religion or faith. We never talked about politics, in our home it never came up." To which my daughter said, "That's all we talked about in my home growing up." Like, I don't know how, you know, she just couldn't relate. But I know there's a lot of people, your faith is private, it causes conflict, so does politics. But these things are really important to our lives and how they work, and they're important if we're going to hand it off to the next generation. Then we have to talk about, and we have to be comfortable with it. But parents need to be empowered and encouraged. There's a way to do it that works, there's a way that doesn't. Like, how do you approach, you know, influencing your children without embodying them? How do you do a good job of impressing things on them, you know? And one of them is, you don't make a decision not to talk about these things.

John Mulholland
So you just used that word impress.

Jon Simpson
Yes.

John Mulholland
So the NLT does, (sorry I'll flip back to Deuteronomy, if I know my Bible), "Repeat them again and again," like that is in other translations and I think in the Hebrew it says, "Impress them on your children." And the concept of that is like, I have a clay tablet and what I'm gonna do is, I'm gonna impress, I'm gonna rub on that clay tablet with a sharp tool, with an implement, and I'm gonna impress that into the clay tablet so that it looks like what I want it to, and that's gonna require time. Like, I'm gonna impress that on them and like, that's our role, and I think that we just live out the Christian faith.

Kiley Calloway
Right. But if we go back to Deuteronomy, can't we read that and just find some, just practical things that parents can do day-to-day that are simple? Yes, I believe it does.

John Mulholland
"Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, all your soul, all your strengths. You must commit yourselves wholeheartedly to these commands that I'm giving you today." So I am not a disciple of Jesus Christ. I don't mean, I go to church; I don't mean, but I go to small group. But I give, but I serve; if I am not a disciple of Jesus Christ I am not going to pass on the faith of Jesus Christ to my children. I'm not going to. It starts with, so the way, like I have all this written down.

Kiley Calloway
You have to be a disciple.

John Mulholland
Personal! This is a personal thing.

Kiley Calloway
Yes.

John Mulholland
Not just a Christian, a disciple. This starts with me. If I'm not a disciple of Jesus Christ, committed myself wholeheartedly, that doesn't mean perfectly (like those things we talked about off air), but I have to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Repeat them again and again to your children. Like, this is so practical. Talk about them when you're on the road or when you're at home, when you're going to bed and when you getting up.

Kiley Calloway

Home, road, and going to bed.

John Mulholland
So when I go to bed at night, I need to have some sort of religious interaction with my children. Pray with them.

Kiley Calloway

Awesome concept.

John Mulholland
It's amazing.

Kiley Calloway
Yes. So we still at our house, we swap each night. So like, one night I'll get my daughter and then the next night I'll get my son. We still put them to bed. Hopefully she doesn't watch this, because she's 15 years old.

John Mulholland
Right? I bet she hates that....No I'm kidding, she probably likes it.

Kiley Calloway
She loves it. And you know, she has a prayer that she prays religiously. She's memorized it, but it's hers, right? And then I pray for them. And now my wife takes it a step further, cause she loves to talk. But you know, she'll talk with them and all that, but we've been doing that since birth. And until they tell us, you know, we're too old for this, we'll probably still do it, but we do that religiously.

John Mulholland
So, but this ought to help us with what we ought to be encouraged to do for us and parents when you're at home. So here's the deal, if you're sitting at home and you're sitting in your living room and all of you are doing this (pretends to type on the phone).

Kiley Calloway
Get the Bible app.

John Mulholland
This is what you're discipling them into, is looking at their device. Like, what am I talking about with my kids when I'm at home? What are we talking about when we're on the road? Does everybody just retreat into their devices the second we get into our car? Or are we using that time to intentionally disciple? Like, you've got to decide that as parents. So that's like so personal, I have to be a disciple. I have a practical responsibility to my children and what if I don't have kids to the next generation? And then the last piece, "Tie them on your hands, wear them on your forehead as reminders. Write them on the doorpost of your house and on your gates."

Kiley Calloway
Now, what does that mean?

John Mulholland
That's missional.

Kiley Calloway
What does that mean for us practically?

John Mulholland
That means I'm gonna get a Jesus fist bumper-sticker and put on my car! No, it means that I am gonna live out my faith in the marketplace. That means I'm going to like, this is like hands in scripture. When we read the word 'hands,' we're gonna take actions. We're gonna do Christian things: We're gonna love them, we're gonna serve them, we're gonna give generously. We're gonna, like, do Christian things. And then wear them on your forehead as reminders. It means our minds are gonna be oriented towards God. Write them on your doorpost of your house and, like, we are going to proclaim Jesus with our lives publicly. Not by holding up a sign, well it might be that, for some people it might be that. But we are gonna demonstrate that we have committed ourselves wholeheartedly to God's commands in the public square.

Kiley Calloway
Like, this is so easy---but so deep.

Jon Simpson
Well, it is pretty simple. And the breakdown, we just had a marriage retreat and we talked about, and every one of the things we talked about in all of this, there is, and people need to realize there's an attack against every piece in our world and our culture. And that is a spiritual attack. So we have an order that God created things with. The order is, as I taught in that is God: husband, wife, children. That's the order. So if you have a husband, the man in the home, is not connected to God in a way that he's following God, he's learning and growing spiritually. Then there's a breakdown in the rest of the structure in terms of this whole handoff. I mean, mom can be really serious about following Jesus and getting the family to church.

John Mulholland
And you know what? Thank God for that! How many families do we have in our churches where mom is the spiritual leader?

Jon Simpson
Yes! However that doesn't, there will be a breakdown there. So my challenge is that, "Yeah, men, you're called to be spiritual leaders and you've got to be moving in this arena of your faith and growing and engaged." And it makes a big difference when that happens. And so, I'm just saying there's a tax against so many things in all of this, you know, "oh, religion is for women and children, you know?" Whatever you want to do. And this gets handed off generationally because that's a belief, those are beliefs that are in our culture. And so, you know, just like in the nation of Israel when they moved into the land of Canaan, they had issues with the culture around them and constantly they were wooed away to follow the culture around them. And we have that same battle, it's probably the biggest battle we have. And just like in those days where it was, you know, demonic, satanic worship, that really they were being pulled away to. I mean, it's those kinds of things that we battle with today. But taking the responsibility and the church impressing this, you know, upon families and this is how it's supposed to work. Well, it's a challenge following Jesus and encouraging people to do it. I just encourage parents, like yeah, you know, it matters how you live your life. If you really grab onto this and follow Jesus, that is going to be the greatest influence, because your kids care about what you do more than what you say. How you live your life matters more than what you teach them. But use the church, back to our whole conversation, use the church as a reinforcement. It matters the church was created for you to help you grow as a family. So the church can provide ministries that are designed for your kids. It can help through a season of 'that's difficult' junior high and high school. Those are big pieces, you know, so coming to church matters, but you can't just put it all there. You've got to be working, your side of it as parents and understanding that God designed parents to do that. So thanks for joining us for this bonus episode. I hope that's been helpful and encouraging to you. We believe that God created you as parents to influence your children and to disciple them. We know that God has put this generational connection where grandparents play a significant role as well, and supporting and encouraging that. And so we just, our prayer for you is that you would continue to be empowered and that you'd live it out. You'd trust God's process, His plan, and that you would be following Jesus. We know if you are, then you're going to pass off your faith to the next generation. So thanks for joining us for this session and for the series. God bless you again.