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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Ben Poole and Gary Schick.
Ben Poole
So our question this morning comes from a listener who says, "I heard a guy once share how angry he was that he would not be married to his wife in heaven. He was so angry that he did not want to go to heaven if he could not be married to his wife. Why will there be no marriage in heaven? What will be our relationship with family members when we get to heaven?" So Gary, if you want to go ahead and kick us off on this.
Gary Schick
Well I'm glad it wasn't specifically our listener who was angry about this. I think it kind of reflects culturally where we're at, Christian and non-Christian alike. Heaven isn't a place we've been, we haven't been to the other side, and so we tend to imagine it on our own terms. I think so many don't even think of God when they think of the next life to come, they just sort of think of it as an extension of this life, only better, and it's very self-centered - you know, here's what I want and it's going to be me and whatever. That's not exactly the picture that's painted for us. I can tell you, regardless of what it's like, you don't not want to be in heaven. This scriptural picture of not being in heaven is outer darkness, weeping, gnashing of teeth, eternal fire, separation from God. If you don't want to be with God, well, you won't be, but you won't be with anyone else either.
There was an old country song years back about hell being some kind of a drunken party or something, and it ain't going to be, there's no fellowship there. But the question, "Why won't there be marriage? What will our relation to others be?" The question really is coming from Matthew 22:30, and this is Jesus talking, he is answering the question of the Sadducees who didn't believe in an afterlife. So they were kind of mocking him and saying, "So suppose there was this guy who was married and he died?" And in those days in order to carry on the family line, if your brother died you were supposed to marry his wife and carry on the family line. And so they just came up sort of with this mocking idea where there's seven brothers and each one is married to this woman and nobody has children with her in the resurrection. Who is whose wife, whose husband will be hers, right? And by the way, the Sadducees didn't even believe in the whole Old Testament. They only took the first five books, the books of Moses, his scripture. And so Jesus just narrows his focus to what they understand and what they believe. And He says, "God said not 'I was the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob' but 'I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob'," and in the very books that the Sadducees called scripture, it's indicating they are still very much alive and in God's presence, and yes, there is an afterlife.
But He even answers their question, ridiculous as it is, and says, "At the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. They will be like the angels in heaven." Well, this has led to some confusion. You often hear people talking about heaven, talking about getting our wings like we're going to become angels, like that's sort of the next evolution or something, right? That is not a scriptural picture either. We don't become angels, there's no reference in scripture that would identify that we're going to sprout wings. We are going to be what we are in a glorified state, but we will have a similarity in the sense that angels do not marry. They're not given in marriage. They don't procreate, and neither will we - we will go into heaven in a fixed form. That said, are we going to? From scripture's perspective, as a believer in Jesus, we're going on to something pretty wonderful. 1 John 3:2 says, "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." The first goal of heaven is to be with the Savior, to be in Jesus' presence, the One who died for our sins and loved us. There can be nothing more glorious than that. But it is natural to ask the question, "What about my loved ones who are saved? Will I see them again? Will we know each other?"
Here's some things that scripture says, going way back to Father Abraham in the Old Testament, the death of Abraham is described in this way. "Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years, and he was gathered to his people." Genesis 25:8, "He was gathered to his people." Other people whose death is described as "gathered to his people" include Ishmael in Genesis 25:17, Isaac in Genesis 35:29, Jacob in Genesis 49:33, Moses' brother Aaron in Numbers 20:24, and even Moses in Numbers 27:13. And so related to this is the idiom found in Genesis 15:15, where God tells Abraham, "You shall go to your fathers in peace, you shall be buried in a good old age." So is He just talking about kind of a way of speaking about death, or is He actually saying something more about rejoining those who have gone before? There are several ways that the scripture describes it - lie down or rest with your fathers, go to your ancestors, go to your people, and rest with your fathers.
Similarly in 2 Samuel 12:23, King David lost a son, and you can go back and read the story behind that, it was very tragic. This child, this first child between him and Bathsheba dies in infancy. And as the child was sick and dying David mourned, he fasted, he prayed. He pled with God for the child's life so much so that when the child died his servants were afraid that he might take his own life. So finally David says, "Is the child dead?" "Yes," they respond. And he goes and washes himself, and he sits down and he eats, and they're confused. And David says, "Well now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." David had a sense of peace that he would go to that child, and David also in the Psalms speaks about God bringing him himself back. Job said, "I will see my Redeemer in my flesh, see Him with my own eyes." So there was a confidence in an afterlife, and there was a confidence not only of going to be with God, but going to be with those who've gone before.
So can we trust that believing family, parents, children, spouses, even though we're not in a married state, that we're going to have relationships and be together with the Lord? Absolutely. In fact, what does it say about the rapture? We, not individually, but we together will meet the Lord in the air. And then finally for my part, one of my favorite passages kind of talking about the heaven to come, Hebrews 12:23 talks about how "Through faith, we have been brought together with the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven. To God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect." All of this is in the new Jerusalem, which apparently already awaits us. "The souls of righteous individuals already made complete, made perfect in Christ." That's what's waiting for us on the other side. So first and foremost, I am looking forward to meeting the Lord. But do I anticipate seeing my dad who's gone before me, my grandparents, other loved ones, cousins who've gone on in Christ? Absolutely. And do I kind of look forward on the streets of gold to brushing shoulders with the apostle Paul and asking him some questions, and asking Adam and Eve, "By the way, did you have belly buttons?" and all those weird questions? Yeah, I can't wait.
Ben Poole
Yeah, and I think that's a good perspective he gave on discussing what it's going to be like. Are we going to know people when we see him? I agree, I think we will, there's enough scripture to back it up. Even if we didn't, I'm not sure we would care once we're there.
Gary Schick
It's going to be pretty great.
Ben Poole
But I think it's something to understand that there's a difference between what takes place in this life and the next. As the church and as Christians become the bridegroom of Christ, that is a marriage that takes place in Christ. And I was thinking about what heaven would be like, because I can understand, I love my wife more than any other person on earth, and it's hard to think about not being married to her at some point. But if our focus is on that, I think we're missing something beautiful. Regarding the book of Revelation, I know a lot of people live in fear over it and they really dive in to find secret hidden messages. And I don't think that's ever necessary because I've never believed that God desires to confuse us people. I think He wants to point us to Himself. And I think He does that really well in Revelation.
As John sees this revelation, this message, what are the people doing in heaven? Or the beasts or the creatures that God has created, what are they doing? One of them in Revelation 4:8, "Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under His wings. Day and night they never stopped saying, 'Holy holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come. Whenever the living creatures give glory honor and thanks to Him who sit on the throne and who lives forever, and ever. The twenty four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say, 'You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power'." Another passage from chapter 7 in Revelation, this great multitude comes before God. They have branches in their hands, "And they cry out, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.' And all the angels are standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, they fell down on their faces before the throne, and they worshiped God saying, 'Amen, praise and glory and wisdom, and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever, amen'." And it goes on and on and on throughout the whole book of Revelation that there's going to be a time when we go to see God. And I think you nailed it really well right off the bat. We often think of heaven - not about God, but about us, right? Heaven is the glory of God, I'm not sure we're going to care about anything else.
Gary Schick
There's going to be tons of praise, and it's going to be heartfelt. It's not going to be, "Oh, we've got to praise the Lord some more."
Ben Poole
We're going to fully understand salvation at that point, because we're saved now but we're still in the midst of sin and suffering. Just like we see on the news in Afghanistan and the suffering that's taking place at the hands of other people, and Haiti, the total destruction and death, it's everywhere right? And this is going to be the perfect absence of all darkness. There is no darkness, there is only light, there's only God, there are only God's people. And I remember as a kid thinking, 'Man, just sitting there singing to God sounds like a really long eternal church service.' It is so much more powerful and better there. Your desire will be to praise God forever because of what He has done.
Gary Schick
It'll be like when you're climbing a mountain and it just gets more glorious as you go on, you know?
Ben Poole
It'll never get old. It'll never die down. It's going to be one heck of a party.
Gary Schick
And the new Jerusalem is described as an incredibly spacious place, but it is a city where we will be together with our God. Our God is a God of relationship, He's the father, Son, and Spirit, He's created us for relationship. So if there's a fear that we will be lonely or something, no, there will be that relationship. We will reach a level of connectedness and depth and intimacy that you can't even in any way achieve in this life. But it will be different, but that's okay. One caution: Listeners, never say 'I don't want to be in heaven'. That is really a wish you don't want to follow through on.
Ben Poole
You may not want to be in heaven because you won't be married, but you're not going to be any more married in hell either. You are alone and suffering forever.
Gary Schick
God's not gonna suffer if we reject Him. We're the only ones that stand to lose. The gates are open, Jesus has paid a horrific price to welcome you home.
Ben Poole
It's going to be worth it.
Gary Schick
Let Him love you. Let Him embrace you.