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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors
Jeff Banks, Andy Griess and Bruce Peterson.
Jeff Banks
Well, we've got a question on the table. I think this is a question that we've maybe been asked pastorally that's come up a number of times. Um, so the question is about cremation. What does the Bible say about that? How should believers view cremation? I think some of this is driven from the increasing popularity of cremation. I think it's cheaper. Yeah.
Bruce Peterson
It's still way more money than you expect it to be, but it's still cheaper than the burial process.
Jeff Banks
Right. So we want to talk about this and lay this out on the table, what does Scripture say and how do we approach it? Certainly when we look at the reality of death and the decay of our bodies, the gospel is built on the hope of bodily resurrection, right? So this is the great hope of 1 Corinthians 15 Christ is the first fruits, so He's leading the way and is the hope of the gospel for Christians for all who believe in him, that when they die their their body will be resurrected from the grave. So does cremation impact that?
Bruce Peterson
So let's first deal with the dispersement of the molecules, so to speak. If you're in a grave, you're all in one place. And if the resurrection happens and you've only been in there 500 years, you might even have some bones. They're there, but you're all in one spot. So what would the Bible say simply about dispersement? Are there any passages that would suggest God doesn't have a problem with dispersement?
Jeff Banks
We talked about a passage in Revelation 20. I think it hits it. So in Revelation 20, we've got this passage that says "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them."
Bruce Peterson
So the pit and even the seas. So what happens if you throw a dead body in the sea?
Jeff Banks
It's going to decompose and get eaten.
Bruce Peterson
It's gonna get eaten and turned into fish food.
Jeff Banks
Yeah, kind of come back out.
Bruce Peterson
It's going to be dispersed. And this goes, this is the final judgment you're reading, right? So this goes back to Adam and Eve. So all the bodies that have died at sea, God can pull them all back out. So disbursement can't be a concern. You have to let that continue.
Jeff Banks
If you have a loved one that's cremated and you disperse their ashes over a cliff or some favorite place, not a problem for God to miraculously gather them.
Bruce Peterson
No, not at all. Okay. So disbursement can't be an issue. So then what about fire? Hm. What passage would you go to there?
Jeff Banks
We talked earlier about how there are places in the Scripture where there were bodies that were burned, and there was some kind of a negative context.
Bruce Peterson
There's some negative consequences to the picture-
Jeff Banks
-but no real prohibition against that.
Bruce Peterson
No prohibition, but I would go to Hebrews and I know it's not in there, but I would still go there because the author is pulling to mind the Christian heroes, right?
Andy Griess
The hall of faith, yeah.
Bruce Peterson
This is speaking of people who lived by faith, right? These are the heroes, the real champions. There were others who were tortured. One of ways you'd be tortured would be,
Jeff Banks
You could get burned at the stake.
Bruce Peterson
Burned at the stake, right? So people are tortured. They're burned at the stake, refusing to be released so that they might gain a better resurrection. Some of them face jeers and floggings, chains, imprisonment. They were put to death by stoning, they were sawed in two, killed by the sword. We know that they were fed to lions again, they're torn apart and eaten. These are the heroes. God goes on to say that the world isn't worthy of them. The Bible doesn't seem to in any way want to shame our Bible heroes because of the way they died. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego speaks to this issue, right? He's going to throw them into a furnace and in a voice that says, "I want to honor God", what did they say to Nebuchadnezzar? You know the answer, it's not a trick question. "Throw us in, throw us in. God might save us. He might not. Either way, we're not going to bow down to your idol, but I'm going to honor God by being willing to go into the furnace." That's a pretty big deal.
Andy Griess
And I think a lot of this concern over "Is burial the proper way for us to dispose of a Christian's body?", a lot of it goes back to what you read in the Old Testament, about Joseph being concerned that his bones be taken back to be buried with this father. And over and over and over people who were given a proper honoring at their death, they keep saying they were buried with their fathers, they were buried with etc. And you hear that often enough in the Old Testament you begin to think maybe burial is, that's just the way it's supposed to be done. And I don't know, looking through the Scriptures, there's just the sense that we are body and spirit. Those things cannot be separated, people are body and spirit. And when we die, our spirit is separated from our body. But because there's a resurrection, that's just temporary. There's going to be a body and spirit together for all of eternity. So then the question begins, how do we give dignity to that body that was left behind when death comes? And the idea of burying someone with their fathers, that's their way of saying they gave them a proper burial, they were honored.
Bruce Peterson
They were honored in death, agreed.
Andy Griess
And so the question goes to burial or cremation. If the intent is to honor that body, is there one way that has to be done or are these two just different options? We definitely want to honor it, but there's two different ways of doing it. And it's so hard to put together any real specific biblical information because there's no passage you're going to look to that says "here's how".
Bruce Peterson
The Bible never tells us how to do it or how to honor the death. It's implied that if you love them, honor them, but God doesn't give us directive on that.
Jeff Banks
I mean, it certainly seems in the Jewish context that the preferred best way to honor was burial, right?
Bruce Peterson
But even their burial is going to be different than our burial here in Nebraska, or burial in Louisiana, everyone's above ground because the water's too high. Joseph was mummified, which is why it says that he's mummified. We might find his mummy someday. He can be taken out 450 years later. He's probably still a pretty young mummy, right? He probably looks pretty much like himself 400 years later. So that's not "burial" in terms of a Nebraska burial. Even the word has a pretty wide ranging definition of what it means be buried. And I would think in a euphemistic way, even the Nordics, when they would do the funeral pyre they would probably say "We buried him with his fathers". You know what I mean? I think that's more than a procedural specific thing.
Jeff Banks
So 1 Corinthians has some good places that highlight this, this is 1 Corinthians 15. "Someone may ask, how are the dead raised? What kind of body will they come? What you sow does not come back to life unless it dies when you sow, you did not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of the weed or something else. But God gives it a body as he determined. And to each kind, he gives seed to each his own body. All flesh is not the same. Men have a kind of flesh, animals have another."
Bruce Peterson
This is a seed. This is a shell. It's a hint of what's to come, right? You don't put in a corn seed and get an apple tree, you get a corn plant. It's the same family of things, but it's different. That's his point, right?
Jeff Banks
Yeah, definitely. And when he gets to the end, he says, "I declare to you brothers that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable." So we're going to have these imperishable bodies resurrected, but flesh, right? Like you said, we're not going to be floating around in heaven as these disembodied spirits, right? There's going to be a bodily resurrection. And this is what we want to cling to.
Bruce Peterson
It's a mystery.
Jeff Banks
This is a mystery. I think that the essence of the miracle and the beauty and glory of bodily resurrection is a mystery to us, but not impossible for God.
Bruce Peterson
And I would say that the point is that it's a wonderful mystery. There might be the odd person who wants their human body back, but I don't know anyone that actually wants that, like "I can't wait to be taller. I can't wait to be thinner. I can't wait to be younger. I can't wait to be fit." What we are saying is, we want to be ourselves, but we're gonna be pretty cool with some physical perfections. I want to be similar and different. And Paul says, "Guess what? You're going to be similar and different," but in a better way than you could imagine.
Andy Griess
Yeah. I think about the mystery of how God from nothing created everything, and built us with a soul and a body together, and scientists can't even describe what a consciousness is and how it is. We don't even have the answers to that with all the technology that we have. We can't figure out the mystery of how God put it all together and that God, at the end of time, when it's time for our final resurrection, to be able to put together perfect bodies, imperishable bodies, he's going to have no trouble with that.
Bruce Peterson
And He did it all with a word the first time. He's going to have no trouble. So no worries, but we don't believe the Bible prescribes how to bury someone in a proper way.
Andy Griess
I'm glad this question came up because it's one that a lot of people have. And it's one that some people just agonize about, because my grandpa was cremated and I heard a comment about something to do with where my grandpa's soul was, and you can be troubled about it. As a pastor, what I want to say is - you search the scripture and you're not going to find anything in here that's going to indicate that cremation has any impact on this person's soul. And if it did, if it was that monumental, something would be told to us. Because we're arguing so much from silence, I think it's a non-issue.
Bruce Peterson
God left it silent on purpose. What does your culture do with their dead? Every culture has a way to honor the dead or disgrace the dead. Honor them, definitely honor them, but whatever that way is is neutral because the resurrection and being in Christ is the only worry until you die. There'll be a miracle, a mystery, a wonderful change, and the seed will turn into the fruit. Man, trust that. That's the important bit.
Jeff Banks
Yeah, I don't think cremation would put any of that in jeopardy.
Bruce Peterson
So if you died, do you want your wife to cremate you or bury you?
Jeff Banks
You know, that's a good question. I think she... I don't even know if she's told me what she wants, I don't think we've talked about it.
Bruce Peterson
Wow, there you go. How about you? You want to be buried or cremated?
Andy Griess
I think I prefer to be buried, but at different times when I was more cheap in my life, there was a time where I thought maybe I was going to be cremated because I just want to make it cheaper. You know, you say you could go at any time, but I must not truly be expecting to go at anytime because I'm not wrestling with that.
Bruce Peterson
So I don't want to make light of it, but I do at the same time. So we buried my son, but we had him cremated. The tiniest part of the idea was that if we had his ashes, the dead in Christ are raised first, so we'd get a clue at the resurrection because he would start moving before we did. Sure. So here's what I want now - I would like to be cremated and have my ashes kind of mixed with his, and we'll go together.
Andy Griess
There you go!
Bruce Peterson
You know, my wife can be in the jar too, all three of us. So put us all in together and then we'll let Jesus sort it all out. That's our trust and our hope.