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This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Gary Hashley and Brad Kilthau.
Gary Hashley
I have written in front of me, I did not come up with this question. It's come from elsewhere. It says, "what about eternal security?" There are different denominations with different teachings on this. There are those who are dogmatic---that once a person accepts Jesus as savior, there's no way for that person to ever be lost. And yet there are other Christians who state you can lose your salvation and must be re-saved or saved again or born again. I guess you might say, "what is with this?" That is really a topic that from the time I was a high schooler that was bantered about many times. I had a friend in high school who was a part of a church that did not hold to the security of the believer and the assurance of salvation, and he loved to get together and to talk about that. Actually, he loved to argue about that and I was young and I joined in the arguing about that, but the statement is true. There are some groups who, when they look at scripture, they come to the conclusion that a person could be saved today but maybe not still saved tomorrow or next week or next month or next year. I was part of a children's ministry in Michigan years and years ago, and one of the churches where I held daily vacation Bible school for several summers, it was a Baptist church. But the pastor was one who did not hold to the security of the believer, and he would go to people who maybe missed prayer meeting on Wednesday night a couple times in a row, and he would say, "you need to get back to church and you need to get saved again." He kind of used it as a threat. He used it as maybe a club of correction on people, and I'll tell you, there are times where I would say, "man, wouldn't it be nice if the Bible did teach that, because people would then maybe take serving Jesus and living for Jesus a little more seriously." I have said though in the past, that really if there are those who hold to eternal insecurity and those who hold to eternal security, and we each of us see someone whose lifestyle is one that's not of holiness, it's not of obedience that the normal pattern of their life is in sin and they don't seem to have any remorse, they don't seem to have any guilt in their lives. I've often said the concern is the same and that is this person needs Jesus. Now, they might say those who like my friend in high school might say, "yeah, that person was saved and has lost it and needs to get saved again." I would look and say, "I wonder if that person was ever really saved in the first place," whether they've ever truly been born again in the first place. So really, the concern is the same. If someone's life seems to cry out or clearly say, "I don't know Jesus." Our concern is, they need Jesus as their savior. I really feel bad for those who do not have an assurance of their salvation. I feel bad for those who day by day don't know, "if I had a car accident and were killed, if I were to have a heart attack and die, if I were to be swept away in a tornado on the prairies of Nebraska somewhere and be killed in that storm," they would say, "but I don't know, I would hope I would go to heaven, but I don't know." And I feel really bad, because the Bible does say we can know. 1 John 5:13 is a very favorite verse of mine to share at a time like this. The Apostle John says, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life." KNOW that you may have eternal life. The Bible says we can know it. How can we know it? Well, we can know it because the Bible says, "He who has the Son has life. He who does not have the son of God, does not have life." So if I have put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior from sin according to scripture, I can know. Not hope, not wish, not think I'm on my way to heaven; that I'm a Christian, but I can know it for a fact. And so it is a critical thing. Now, there's a couple versions of belief about losing salvation. One is what I grew up hearing about churches, and that is, if you got saved this Sunday and sometime during this week you told a lie, you had a lustful thought, you broke the speed limit, you cheated on your income tax, whatever it might be that, "okay, you've lost it. Now you've got to get saved again." And I know of churches that, that is their position. And people are at the altar, usually there's boxes of tissue there because people are weeping. "I'm sorry Lord, I lost it last week. I want it back and accept Jesus is my savior again." Then there are others who say, "no, that's not what it is." But they believe that a person could intentionally say, "I have believed on Jesus as my savior before. I have decided I don't believe that anymore." And they call it apostate, and it's a willful rejection of what you say you had believed. And I struggle with either of those, because I believe that God not only saves us, but God keeps us. Doesn't mean I've lived a perfect life. Doesn't mean I haven't deserved for Him to scratch my name out of the book of life, but the fact is He saved me by His grace and mercy. He keeps me by His grace and His mercy. So Brad, I've been rambling. Why don't you pick up from there and share what the Lord has put on your heart today?
Brad Kilthau
Well, Gary, you shared that you have a favorite verse that you like to go to there. And first John---when you're talking about this subject to somebody. I've got a favorite chapter and it is John 10. John 10 has always been my theme chapter. It seems like as people go into ministry, they have something that the Lord just sinks deep in their heart and they hold onto that, and that's just kind of their foundation and their basis of ministry. And John 10 has always been that for me. And yeah, just flat out, I truly believe as I look at the word of God that once a person is saved, they are saved and they are forever saved. And it's not because I grew up in a certain church and it's not because I went to a certain Bible school, it's just because of what God laid on my heart, literally, from John chapter 10. And you come to that passage of scripture where Jesus is, he's in Solomon's Portico there in the temple courts, and of course the religious leaders have him cornered just like they always did. And they're trying to say, "well, if you're the Christ, then you tell us plainly." And then when Jesus gives an answer to that, not only does he tell him plainly that he is the Christ---that he is the son of living God---but in those words, he just gives this powerful, powerful truth about salvation and what it means. And of course, we're already looking at him as being the good shepherd in the previous verses and how he uses that analogy of the sheep folds and whatnot to teach about salvation. But when he gets to this point, he talks to these religious leaders and you get to verse 26 of chapter 10, and he says, "but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. As I have said to you." Clearly showing that they're not part of the fold of the redeemed because they have failed to believe in Jesus and who he is.
Brad Kilthau
But then he goes on in verse 27, and this is where it gets really powerful. He said, "my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." And that kind of goes back to what you were saying, Gary, about a true believer walks with the Lord. It's part of us. We're a new creation in Christ. And that's what Jesus is saying. So it's not like we're talking about as a kid, you were sitting in the Sunday school class and somebody said, "do you want to pray the sinner's prayer?" And then all the kids raised their hand and said, "okay, I'll do that." And you joined in because all the other kids are. No, this is sincere. This is genuine total faith in Christ and his work. And Jesus said, "if that's true of you, you will follow me." It doesn't mean you're going to live a perfect life, but you're going to walk in the ways of the Lord because you're a new creation in Christ. But then he makes it very clear, he says in verse 28, "and I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. Neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand." And he says, "my father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my father's hand. I and the Father are one." And I don't know if it could get any clearer than that. That is absolute security. And a couple of things that just really stand out to me is, first of all, one of the things is you see the double security that Jesus talks about there. He talks about us as a believer being in his hand. And then you have to ask the question, "well, who's bigger than Jesus to get us out of his hand?" No one. But then you could also see the picture where the Father wraps his hand around Jesus's hand and that double security that we see with the Father and with the Son. And so when you put this in clear understanding, I look at it as what Jesus is saying is this: He shares where the good shepherd gives us eternal life, but he also gives us eternal security. And we look at that, because when we look at our triune God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus purchased our salvation. He paid for it all. The Father as we know, He promised it and is the Holy Spirit as we learn in other scripture too, that he seals us into the family of God. And so when you start putting that together again, that eternal security is powerful. And I think where some folks can fall---for what I believe is not the right teaching on this that they can lose their salvation---is they start to bring in some human reasoning to this. And I think some of the thought that goes into this is some people will believe, "well, my eternal security is based upon my performance." And that is not true. Our eternal security is based upon the promise of Jesus. In John 3:16, Jesus said, "if you believe in me, you have that gift, you will not perish." That's a promise that's off the lips of Jesus. It's not based upon our performance. It's not based upon us going to church, doing the good things, being benevolence and our giving and all of that. It's just based upon the promise of Jesus. And so when you look at that, we don't earn our salvation. We don't earn our way into heaven by good works. We know that from Ephesians 2:8-9. But we don't keep our salvation by good works either. It is totally based upon the blood of Christ. His work on the cross is based upon his promise. When he said, it's true, when we look at that, it's in Ephesians 2:8-9, "for by grace you've been saved through faith, not of yourselves. It's a gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast." And then when you go to verse 10 of where a lot of folks don't go to, it says, "for we," Who's we? We're the church. We're the believers. "We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Good works are important in the Christian's life. They're not important in the unbeliever, in the eyes of God. They're filthy rags in the eyes of God because they're done in our own effort. Good works as a believer, done with the right heart in the power of the Holy Spirit, become something precious. But in that sense, it's only because we're a new creation in Christ and we're seeking to please him. We're not seeking to keep our salvation by being a good person and never messing up. We're not saved by our works, and we can't keep our salvation by good works. It's only on the promise of Jesus. And just lovingly, I'll have to say this often to some folks, I'll have to say, "if your thought of salvation is ever based upon faith in Jesus, plus works equals salvation, you're not saved. Because you're saying that the work of Jesus wasn't enough. I've got to help you Jesus. And if you're not totally dependent and believing in Christ Jesus, you are not saved. And so you can't have that before. You can't have that after. It's not based upon our good works at any time. It's not based upon our feelings. Any of those things. It's always, always based upon the promise of Christ and his work.
Gary Hashley
I love the terminology Jesus used in John 3, born again. You must be born again. And you think about it. I didn't do anything to be born on November 16th, 1957, but I couldn't ever do anything to be unborn. I was born into the Hashley family. And no matter how many times I disappointed my parents, how many spankings I got growing up, I never ceased to be the son of Albert and June Hashley. And if I've been born again of the spirit of God according to John 3, then there's nothing I can do to get unborn. If there's nothing I do to be saved, how can I do something to become unsaved? So I love that born again statement Jesus used.
